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No Nonsense

Anti-pseudoscience, anti-woo, pro science, pro critical thinking, no conspiracy theories, no spin. Count the logical fallacies. No Nonsense!

Members: 362
Latest Activity: Feb 14

"Keep an open mind – but not so open that your brain falls out" -unknown

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -- Christopher Hitchens

What is a logical fallacy? All arguments have the same basic structure: A therefore B. They begin with one or more premises (A), which is a fact or assumption upon which the argument is based. They then apply a logical principle (therefore) to arrive at a conclusion (B). An example of a logical principle is that of equivalence. For example, if you begin with the premises that A=B and B=C, you can apply the logical principle of equivalence to conclude that A=C. A logical fallacy is a false or incorrect logical principle. An argument that is based upon a logical fallacy is therefore not valid. It is important to note that if the logic of an argument is valid then the conclusion must also be valid, which means that if the premises are all true then the conclusion must also be true. Valid logic applied to one or more false premises, however, leads to an invalid argument. Also, if an argument is not valid the conclusion may, by chance, still be true. For a more thorough discussion of logical fallacies and how to structure a logical argument, see the New England Skeptical Society's article, How To Argue.

Top 20 Logical Fallacies (in alphabetical order) taken from -

The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe

The New England Skeptical Society The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe Science-Based Medicine
The James Randi Educational Foundation
Propaganda
snopes.com
Bad Science by Ben Goldacre
Simon Singh and his fight to mend British libel laws
Professor Richard Wiseman
PZ Myers' Pharyngula
Dr. Phil Plait and Bad Astronomy
Skeptic Blog
Michael Shermer's Baloney Detection Kit
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan
The Skeptics' Dictionary
List of cognitive biases
Don Watson - Weasel Words
QuackWatch
A List of Fallacious Arguments

Chat #NoNonsense

"No skeptic, to my knowledge, ever made a major scientific discovery or advanced the welfare of others."

-- Deepak Chopra (yes, he actually said that)

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but That's funny..." -Isaac Asimov



The scientific world view is full of awe and wonder. Understanding how truly awesome the universe is – in its elegant complexity, its staggering beauty, and the many intricate systems of which it is comprised – gives a profound feeling of connectedness and sparks the imagination. And it has the advantage of being real. -Steven Novella



The glory which is built upon a lie soon becomes a most unpleasant incumbrance. How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and how hard it is to undo that work again.
— Mark Twain

Discussion Forum

Measles

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Grinning Cat Feb 14. 13 Replies

When Lying Sounds Like a certain kind of Honesty

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Loren Miller Jan 6. 2 Replies

Oil Sector Magical Thinking and Three Year Deadline

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Dec 24, 2018. 2 Replies

Great Intro on avoiding mind control

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Dec 11, 2018. 3 Replies

Fear and Groupthink

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Dec 8, 2018. 1 Reply

Mind Control Speech Pathology

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Nov 14, 2018. 3 Replies

Slightly Sort Of Self-Delusional Climate Science

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Nov 5, 2018. 5 Replies

Hierarchy Erodes Truth

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Oct 1, 2018. 3 Replies

GOP Embraces Blatant Lies and Deranged Role Model

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Sep 22, 2018. 5 Replies

Truth Decay - Dire Consequences

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Sep 20, 2018. 1 Reply

Changed by the Attention Economy

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Aug 7, 2018. 15 Replies

Freedom within Atheist Nexus

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Jan 9, 2018. 1 Reply

Failing to imagine systemic risks

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Bertold Brautigan Jan 1, 2018. 1 Reply

Permanent Lie leads to collective psychosis

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck Dec 23, 2017. 1 Reply

Facebook uses fake news outlet as fact checker

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Dec 7, 2017. 0 Replies

Firehose beats Fact-Check

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Nov 26, 2017. 10 Replies

Unwitting Belief Change

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Nov 19, 2017. 2 Replies

Conservative Media Engineers Post-Truth Politics

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Loren Miller Oct 31, 2017. 2 Replies

Kids' Entertainment - Bombing Civilians

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Oct 8, 2017. 2 Replies

Anger-Incitement Playbook

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Andrew Sep 26, 2017. 15 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Bertold Brautigan on February 10, 2019 at 10:57pm


Hundreds of Southern Baptist leaders, volunteers accused of sexual misconduct in bombshell investigation

Fox Gnus

Hundreds of leaders and volunteers within Southern Baptist churches across the nation have been accused of sexual misconduct against young churchgoers for decades - many of them quietly returning to church roles even after being convicted for sex crimes.

A bombshell investigation by the Houston Chronicle and the San Antonio Express-News found that over the last 20 years, about 380 Southern Baptist church leaders and volunteers have faced credible accusations of sexual misconduct. Of those, roughly 220 were convicted of sex crimes or received plea deals, in cases involving more than 700 victims in all, the report found. Many accusers were young men and women, who allegedly experienced everything from exposure to pornography to rape and impregnation at the hands of church members.

Comment by Patricia on February 10, 2019 at 10:48pm

And on it goes...……..

Comment by Patricia on February 4, 2019 at 2:32pm

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on February 4, 2019 at 2:23pm

Great point, Grinning Cat: "Even corpses are treated with more respect than pro-forced-birthers give pregnant people: organs that would save lives can't be harvested from a dead body without the family's permission."

Comment by Michael Penn on February 1, 2019 at 6:32am

In other forums I'm in on other sites people are very upset that some states are now saying you can get an  abortion even if you are full term. The picture here is that a woman is ready to deliver and has an abortion instead and wants the baby killed. Some are claiming that the "abortion clinic" (women's clinic) must be very happy. Why would the clinic be happy and why would they even do it? Birth control pills are still much cheaper. What is wrong with people who believe this nonsense?

Comment by Grinning Cat on February 1, 2019 at 12:47am

Loren, well said!

...values like being anti-abortion and anti-gay-marriage are RESTRICTIONS, whereas being pro-choice and supporting LGBTQ rights are actions AGAINST restrictions...

  • If you don't like same-sex marriage, don't marry someone of your own sex.
  • But Don't Think For ONE LOUSY SECOND You Have The Right To Dictate Your Preferences To Others.

Some restrictions are necessary to preserve other freedoms and rights: I'm not legally allowed to shoot people because they're playing the accordion badly or wearing ugly Christmas sweaters. (Upholding "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" works against that.)

But those restrictions had better have strong secular reasons, better than "That's icky!" or "My god said so!" or lies and pseudoscience motivated by those two reasons.

On abortion, people who are "pro-life" (more often pro-forced-birth, not caring about the well-being and health and nurturing of actual babies and children, not to mention adults) often imply a false moral equivalence between a zygote or embryo or fetus -- a potential child -- and an actual living, breathing, thinking, feeling human person.

Even if the Z/E/F were a "person", that's actually irrelevant: nobody and nothing gets to use the pregnant person's body--even for survival--without her consent. We don't have armed compulsory blood-donation or kidney-donation squads. Even corpses are treated with more respect than pro-forced-birthers give pregnant people: organs that would save lives can't be harvested from a dead body without the family's permission.

Comment by Patricia on February 1, 2019 at 12:35am

Well at least that's true!

Comment by Grinning Cat on February 1, 2019 at 12:29am

Great analogy, Ruth!

Patricia, here's a much better candidate for "stable genius": "A horse is a horse, of course, of course..."

(Mister Ed, the talking horse from the TV show, listening to a phone call)

Comment by Patricia on January 31, 2019 at 6:02pm

Yes, so says the stable genius.

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on January 31, 2019 at 5:59pm
 

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