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No Nonsense

Anti-pseudoscience, anti-woo, pro science, pro critical thinking, no conspiracy theories, no spin. Count the logical fallacies. No Nonsense!

Members: 353
Latest Activity: 10 hours ago

"Keep an open mind – but not so open that your brain falls out" -unknown

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -- Christopher Hitchens

What is a logical fallacy? All arguments have the same basic structure: A therefore B. They begin with one or more premises (A), which is a fact or assumption upon which the argument is based. They then apply a logical principle (therefore) to arrive at a conclusion (B). An example of a logical principle is that of equivalence. For example, if you begin with the premises that A=B and B=C, you can apply the logical principle of equivalence to conclude that A=C. A logical fallacy is a false or incorrect logical principle. An argument that is based upon a logical fallacy is therefore not valid. It is important to note that if the logic of an argument is valid then the conclusion must also be valid, which means that if the premises are all true then the conclusion must also be true. Valid logic applied to one or more false premises, however, leads to an invalid argument. Also, if an argument is not valid the conclusion may, by chance, still be true. For a more thorough discussion of logical fallacies and how to structure a logical argument, see the New England Skeptical Society's article, How To Argue.

Top 20 Logical Fallacies (in alphabetical order) taken from -

The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe

The New England Skeptical Society The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe Science-Based Medicine
The James Randi Educational Foundation
Propaganda
snopes.com
Bad Science by Ben Goldacre
Simon Singh and his fight to mend British libel laws
Professor Richard Wiseman
PZ Myers' Pharyngula
Dr. Phil Plait and Bad Astronomy
Skeptic Blog
Michael Shermer's Baloney Detection Kit
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan
The Skeptics' Dictionary
List of cognitive biases
Don Watson - Weasel Words
QuackWatch
A List of Fallacious Arguments

Chat #NoNonsense

"No skeptic, to my knowledge, ever made a major scientific discovery or advanced the welfare of others."

-- Deepak Chopra (yes, he actually said that)

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but That's funny..." -Isaac Asimov



The scientific world view is full of awe and wonder. Understanding how truly awesome the universe is – in its elegant complexity, its staggering beauty, and the many intricate systems of which it is comprised – gives a profound feeling of connectedness and sparks the imagination. And it has the advantage of being real. -Steven Novella



The glory which is built upon a lie soon becomes a most unpleasant incumbrance. How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and how hard it is to undo that work again.
— Mark Twain

Discussion Forum

Hell for christians? Hell for all?

Started by Patricia. Last reply by Joseph P 10 hours ago. 60 Replies

Misleading Public Polls

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Dec 8, 2015. 5 Replies

My arguments are always valid

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck Nov 6, 2015. 4 Replies

The heart of anti-atheist prejudice is distrust

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck Oct 20, 2015. 2 Replies

Can psychics "connect" with a woman's nonexistent dead sister?

Started by Grinning Cat. Last reply by Bertold Brautigan Sep 9, 2015. 10 Replies

Idiocracy Now

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joseph P Sep 2, 2015. 4 Replies

It Takes More Faith to Be an Atheist Than to Believe in God?

Started by Bertold Brautigan. Last reply by Gerald Payne Aug 21, 2015. 21 Replies

Talking Nonsense as US Politcs

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck Aug 17, 2015. 6 Replies

A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem-Solving

Started by Grinning Cat. Last reply by tom sarbeck Jul 4, 2015. 6 Replies

Spot Graphics that Lie

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joseph P Jun 25, 2015. 49 Replies

Susceptibility to Bias

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Jun 23, 2015. 1 Reply

Gish Gallop

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Loren Miller Jun 21, 2015. 7 Replies

Political discourse in US - fundamentally fallacious

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck May 29, 2015. 14 Replies

Liberal Washing

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Gerald Payne May 19, 2015. 4 Replies

Information Technology amplifies irrational group behavior

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Mar 22, 2015. 10 Replies

Hunger influences decisions

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joseph P Feb 19, 2015. 2 Replies

Why Name Calling

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Oct 30, 2014. 0 Replies

Psychic Power-NOT

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Michael Penn Oct 14, 2014. 7 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Joseph P on May 30, 2015 at 4:03pm

@Michael

One thing that eats theists alive is that there has to be divine retribution. They just know that Hitler is going to hell (some say he's there right now) or if this is not so the world is not fair.

I've heard that desperate, emotional appeal plenty of times, yeah.  There are at least two huge problems with it.  First off, it's a blatant appeal to consequences, which is a logical fallacy for good reason.  The fact that you like the sound of one idea and don't like the idea of the alternative has zero impact on which is true.

But then there's the issue that it isn't even necessarily true, according to the theology of most versions of Christianity.  If Hitler accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as his personal savior, at some point in his life, then he wouldn't be going to hell for the atrocities he committed, according to plenty of Christians.  If your emotional appeal has neither logical nor doctrinal grounds, you should really check yourself.

Some born-again Christians will make the weak argument that someone who doesn't act in a manner in keeping with Christ (which disqualifies Hitler for persecuting Jews but doesn't disqualify them for persecuting gays) had a false born-again experience and isn't really saved, but they have no theological grounds for being able to distinguish between the two.

How do they know that Jesus wasn't pleased at Hitler for getting back at those nasty Jews who helped get him crucified?  There's plenty of Biblical grounds for antisemitism, particularly in the Gospel of John, which was written later on, when antisemitism was starting to take hold in the early church.

Comment by Plinius on May 30, 2015 at 9:12am

You're too kind, Joan, and the honour is mine - I'm happy you're my friend! Not steel - they put concrete in my back during the last operation ;-)

Comment by Joan Denoo on May 30, 2015 at 8:56am

Chris, my perception of you is of a strong, determined, competent, caring, compassionate woman with a backbone of steel and arms of velvet. Your life's experiences haven't killed your spirit, and, in fact, provides the source of your power. The painful past you describe makes even more remarkable the woman you are. I do not wish that kind of pain on anyone. The fact that you made so many responsible and healthy choices is a testament to your fine character. I feel honored to call you my friend. 

Comment by Plinius on May 29, 2015 at 11:49pm

See you all in class today!

Comment by Michael Penn on May 29, 2015 at 7:20pm

I find that all believers cherry pick. Then they tell me that that's what I do. They also claim that atheists go to "evidence, logic, and reasoning classes." The bible (as well as crosses) has some sort of magical power, and if god said it or done it, that's good enough for them.

One thing that eats theists alive is that there has to be divine retribution. They just know that Hitler is going to hell (some say he's there right now) or if this is not so the world is not fair.

Wake up Christian. The world and universe is not fair. Neither is your god.

Comment by Joseph P on May 29, 2015 at 6:20pm

Yup, Michael.  The Bible is pretty clear, on the abortion issue.  It's also pretty clear about slavery and homosexuality.  It's kind of funny that the only one of those issues that fundamentalists follow properly is the one about gay people, huh?

Comment by Michael Penn on May 29, 2015 at 5:04pm

I had forgotten the "test for an unfaithful wife." That does seem to clarify the matter but modern believers have their abortion priorities all wrong. In some cases it was hard to have an extra mouth to feed.

Comment by Gerald Payne on May 29, 2015 at 4:10pm

Porn movies are entertaining, it's the expectations of what's next that give porn its appeal.

Comment by Joseph P on May 29, 2015 at 3:37pm

Porn movies made by men for men seem all the same but with different people.

Not so the porn movies I've seen made by women for women.

I suspect that a lot of what I get is the stuff aimed more at women.  If there's more than 5 minutes of cuddling and making out, before anyone loses the first item of clothing, the video probably isn't made with most men in mind, right?

Once an unwanted kid is born, do the bleeding hearts step up to the plate to raise him/her for the next 18 or so years?

Of course not.  That would result in big government stepping all over the rights of (rich) people.

Comment by tom sarbeck on May 29, 2015 at 12:28pm

     The problem is that the films are all the same, just with different people.

Porn movies made by men for men seem all the same but with different people.

Not so the porn movies I've seen made by women for women. For instance, Candida Royalle's almost-feature-length movies, the short made-for-tv Women: Stories of Passion stories and some of the short Red Shoe Diaries stories of the mid-1990s. The Red Shoe stories (the full-length intro and five years of shorts) are available at Amazon for their Kindle Fire devices.

 

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