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No Nonsense

Anti-pseudoscience, anti-woo, pro science, pro critical thinking, no conspiracy theories, no spin. Count the logical fallacies. No Nonsense!

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"Keep an open mind – but not so open that your brain falls out" -unknown

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -- Christopher Hitchens

What is a logical fallacy? All arguments have the same basic structure: A therefore B. They begin with one or more premises (A), which is a fact or assumption upon which the argument is based. They then apply a logical principle (therefore) to arrive at a conclusion (B). An example of a logical principle is that of equivalence. For example, if you begin with the premises that A=B and B=C, you can apply the logical principle of equivalence to conclude that A=C. A logical fallacy is a false or incorrect logical principle. An argument that is based upon a logical fallacy is therefore not valid. It is important to note that if the logic of an argument is valid then the conclusion must also be valid, which means that if the premises are all true then the conclusion must also be true. Valid logic applied to one or more false premises, however, leads to an invalid argument. Also, if an argument is not valid the conclusion may, by chance, still be true. For a more thorough discussion of logical fallacies and how to structure a logical argument, see the New England Skeptical Society's article, How To Argue.

Top 20 Logical Fallacies (in alphabetical order) taken from -

The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe

The New England Skeptical Society The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe Science-Based Medicine
The James Randi Educational Foundation
Propaganda
snopes.com
Bad Science by Ben Goldacre
Simon Singh and his fight to mend British libel laws
Professor Richard Wiseman
PZ Myers' Pharyngula
Dr. Phil Plait and Bad Astronomy
Skeptic Blog
Michael Shermer's Baloney Detection Kit
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan
The Skeptics' Dictionary
List of cognitive biases
Don Watson - Weasel Words
QuackWatch
A List of Fallacious Arguments

Chat #NoNonsense

"No skeptic, to my knowledge, ever made a major scientific discovery or advanced the welfare of others."

-- Deepak Chopra (yes, he actually said that)

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but That's funny..." -Isaac Asimov



The scientific world view is full of awe and wonder. Understanding how truly awesome the universe is – in its elegant complexity, its staggering beauty, and the many intricate systems of which it is comprised – gives a profound feeling of connectedness and sparks the imagination. And it has the advantage of being real. -Steven Novella



The glory which is built upon a lie soon becomes a most unpleasant incumbrance. How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and how hard it is to undo that work again.
— Mark Twain

Discussion Forum

tRump incoherent babbling

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Loren Miller Aug 15. 17 Replies

Think tank really corrupt arms booster

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Aug 14. 2 Replies

Not The Onion - Steve Moore

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck Jun 9. 12 Replies

Bullshit

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Bertold Brautigan May 5. 25 Replies

Hell for christians? Hell for all?

Started by Patricia. Last reply by Joseph P Feb 7. 60 Replies

Misleading Public Polls

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Dec 8, 2015. 5 Replies

My arguments are always valid

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck Nov 6, 2015. 4 Replies

The heart of anti-atheist prejudice is distrust

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck Oct 20, 2015. 2 Replies

Can psychics "connect" with a woman's nonexistent dead sister?

Started by Grinning Cat. Last reply by Bertold Brautigan Sep 9, 2015. 10 Replies

Idiocracy Now

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joseph P Sep 2, 2015. 4 Replies

It Takes More Faith to Be an Atheist Than to Believe in God?

Started by Bertold Brautigan. Last reply by Gerald Payne Aug 21, 2015. 21 Replies

Talking Nonsense as US Politcs

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck Aug 17, 2015. 6 Replies

A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem-Solving

Started by Grinning Cat. Last reply by tom sarbeck Jul 4, 2015. 6 Replies

Spot Graphics that Lie

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joseph P Jun 25, 2015. 49 Replies

Susceptibility to Bias

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Jun 23, 2015. 1 Reply

Gish Gallop

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Loren Miller Jun 21, 2015. 7 Replies

Political discourse in US - fundamentally fallacious

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck May 29, 2015. 14 Replies

Liberal Washing

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Gerald Payne May 19, 2015. 4 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by sk8eycat on June 18, 2015 at 5:59pm

The first two times I was given morphine, I was still a child/adolescent....and I still went to church.  The third time (1962) was another surgical prep, and my skin turned red as soon as the needle touched my arm.  The nurse yelled for Naloxone, STAT! 

Ever since then I have told every doctor I've been to never to give me morphine.  But the MedicAlert bracelet is a better deal....anyone can read it, whether I'm conscious or not.

When I had spinal surgery 6 years ago, they gave me Vicodin afterwards....no problems at alll.  It didn't even make me high.

Tee-hee!

Comment by Joseph P on June 18, 2015 at 5:04pm

There are plenty of opiates that are similar in origin but have a completely different formulation.  I know one person who gets sick as hell on either Oxycontin or Vicodin and is fine on the other.  I can't remember which one causes her to get sick, though.

Drugs are complicated enough that you shouldn't bar yourself from an entire class of drugs, because one of them causes some bad side effects, for you.  Just tell your doctor that you had bad side-effects with that particular one, and see if you can get a different one.  I think most painkillers are the same schedule, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Besides, depending upon how bad the pain is, it could be worth dealing with the constipation and dry mouth.  Just drink a hell of a lot of water, eat a lot of fiber, and have some coffee, and you should be good.

Comment by Idaho Spud on June 18, 2015 at 2:30pm

The couple of weeks the doctor had me on hydrocodone/APAP, which I think is the same as Vicodin, I had side effects of constipation and dry mouth, so it appears that my body doesn't like opiates.

Comment by Gerald Payne on June 18, 2015 at 2:00pm

Your atheism has no relation to any physical allergy sk8eycat. Atheism is a mental allergic reaction to theistic delusions, it shouldn't make you throw up but nausea could well be a human reaction to it.

Try and steer clear of snorting priests and coke-eyed altar boys.

Comment by sk8eycat on June 18, 2015 at 12:02pm

There was no such thing as Vicodin in 1949 or 1956.  The first time I was in the horsepistol after a crosswalk accident (I was 9 years old), and the drugs didn't bother me....or maybe the pain counteracted the allergy.  The 1956 shot was to prep me for surgery, and I was sick before they even got me into the OR.

I now wear a MedicAlert bracelet....

Comment by Joseph P on June 18, 2015 at 11:01am

I dunno; I've only ever been on Vicodin.  It's some damned good stuff.  One pill and I'm good on pain for at least 12 hours.  I've only had it on two occasions, though, and the longer of the two was for about a week.  The doctor gave me 30, and I think I only used about 9 or 10.

Comment by sk8eycat on June 18, 2015 at 10:28am

Is that why I'm an atheist?  Because opiates (morphine, et al) make me throw up?  Violently.

Comment by Gerald Payne on June 18, 2015 at 8:29am

In the German version, ''Die religion ist das opium des volkes'

'is often rendered' ''Religion is the opiate of the masses''

Apparently it's different interpretations'' ''The opium you feed your people'' coming from Sade. And ''Religion act's merely as an opiate'' from Novalis, who I've never heard of.

Comment by Joseph P on June 18, 2015 at 7:57am

Marx, as well.  It's translated a bit differently, by different people, I guess.  Marx didn't write it in English, of course.

I almost always see it rendered as 'opiate', since that scans much better, in English.

I don't think the Marquis de Sade wrote anything in English, either, so his phrasing of it is similarly open to adjustment, for the purposes of meaning in the destination language.

Comment by Gerald Payne on June 18, 2015 at 7:25am

Marx's full quote reads

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

I think it was the Marqius de Sade who used the word opiate.

 

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