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No Nonsense

Anti-pseudoscience, anti-woo, pro science, pro critical thinking, no conspiracy theories, no spin. Count the logical fallacies. No Nonsense!

Members: 362
Latest Activity: Feb 14

"Keep an open mind – but not so open that your brain falls out" -unknown

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -- Christopher Hitchens

What is a logical fallacy? All arguments have the same basic structure: A therefore B. They begin with one or more premises (A), which is a fact or assumption upon which the argument is based. They then apply a logical principle (therefore) to arrive at a conclusion (B). An example of a logical principle is that of equivalence. For example, if you begin with the premises that A=B and B=C, you can apply the logical principle of equivalence to conclude that A=C. A logical fallacy is a false or incorrect logical principle. An argument that is based upon a logical fallacy is therefore not valid. It is important to note that if the logic of an argument is valid then the conclusion must also be valid, which means that if the premises are all true then the conclusion must also be true. Valid logic applied to one or more false premises, however, leads to an invalid argument. Also, if an argument is not valid the conclusion may, by chance, still be true. For a more thorough discussion of logical fallacies and how to structure a logical argument, see the New England Skeptical Society's article, How To Argue.

Top 20 Logical Fallacies (in alphabetical order) taken from -

The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe

The New England Skeptical Society The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe Science-Based Medicine
The James Randi Educational Foundation
Propaganda
snopes.com
Bad Science by Ben Goldacre
Simon Singh and his fight to mend British libel laws
Professor Richard Wiseman
PZ Myers' Pharyngula
Dr. Phil Plait and Bad Astronomy
Skeptic Blog
Michael Shermer's Baloney Detection Kit
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan
The Skeptics' Dictionary
List of cognitive biases
Don Watson - Weasel Words
QuackWatch
A List of Fallacious Arguments

Chat #NoNonsense

"No skeptic, to my knowledge, ever made a major scientific discovery or advanced the welfare of others."

-- Deepak Chopra (yes, he actually said that)

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but That's funny..." -Isaac Asimov



The scientific world view is full of awe and wonder. Understanding how truly awesome the universe is – in its elegant complexity, its staggering beauty, and the many intricate systems of which it is comprised – gives a profound feeling of connectedness and sparks the imagination. And it has the advantage of being real. -Steven Novella



The glory which is built upon a lie soon becomes a most unpleasant incumbrance. How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and how hard it is to undo that work again.
— Mark Twain

Discussion Forum

Measles

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Grinning Cat Feb 14. 13 Replies

When Lying Sounds Like a certain kind of Honesty

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Loren Miller Jan 6. 2 Replies

Oil Sector Magical Thinking and Three Year Deadline

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Dec 24, 2018. 2 Replies

Great Intro on avoiding mind control

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Dec 11, 2018. 3 Replies

Fear and Groupthink

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Dec 8, 2018. 1 Reply

Mind Control Speech Pathology

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Nov 14, 2018. 3 Replies

Slightly Sort Of Self-Delusional Climate Science

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Nov 5, 2018. 5 Replies

Hierarchy Erodes Truth

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Oct 1, 2018. 3 Replies

GOP Embraces Blatant Lies and Deranged Role Model

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Sep 22, 2018. 5 Replies

Truth Decay - Dire Consequences

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Sep 20, 2018. 1 Reply

Changed by the Attention Economy

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Aug 7, 2018. 15 Replies

Freedom within Atheist Nexus

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Jan 9, 2018. 1 Reply

Failing to imagine systemic risks

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Bertold Brautigan Jan 1, 2018. 1 Reply

Permanent Lie leads to collective psychosis

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck Dec 23, 2017. 1 Reply

Facebook uses fake news outlet as fact checker

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Dec 7, 2017. 0 Replies

Firehose beats Fact-Check

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Nov 26, 2017. 10 Replies

Unwitting Belief Change

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Nov 19, 2017. 2 Replies

Conservative Media Engineers Post-Truth Politics

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Loren Miller Oct 31, 2017. 2 Replies

Kids' Entertainment - Bombing Civilians

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Oct 8, 2017. 2 Replies

Anger-Incitement Playbook

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Andrew Sep 26, 2017. 15 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Loren Miller on January 19, 2019 at 6:32pm

Here's the thing:

Christians pull this "moral values" trip on others all the time, then get upset when we assert OUR values.  The difference is that values like being anti-abortion and anti-gay-marriage are RESTRICTIONS, whereas being pro-choice and supporting LGBTQ rights are actions AGAINST restrictions.  What makes this worse is the violence unleashed against men, women and children in the bible which makes a joke of their supposed "pro-life" attitude.  The solution was proposed a long time ago and I think it still holds:

  • If you don't like abortion, don't have one.
  • If you don't like same-sex marriage, don't marry someone of your own sex.
  • But Don't Thing For ONE LOUSY SECOND You Have The Right To Dictate Your Preferences To Others.
Comment by Tom Sarbeck on January 19, 2019 at 2:07am

...any place I want on any day I want.

Comment by Patricia on January 19, 2019 at 12:25am

Tough.....I'm gonna eat the ice cream.

Comment by Grinning Cat on January 19, 2019 at 12:00am

A cartoon about the all-too-common attitude of many True Believers:

Man in suit, accosting a couple on a park bench, two women eating ice cream cones: “My beliefs forbid me to eat ice cream in the park on Thursdays.” One of the women responds, “So don’t do it.” He retorts, “You don’t understand: since I believe it, you also are forbidden.*” Footnote: *The same happens with civil unions. (Cartoon signed “carlín”)

(a translation of the original, in Spanish, below:)

—Mis creencias me prohíben comer helados en el parque los días jueves. —Pues no lo haga. —No entienden: como yo creo eso, ustedes tampoco pueden*. —*Igual pasa con la unión civil

Comment by Loren Miller on January 16, 2019 at 4:50pm

[sigh] "Hello, Freedom From Religion Foundation?  We got another one for ya!"

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on January 16, 2019 at 2:44pm

ROFL, Patricia. You're top 10 signs made my afternoon.

This part of the Greek kinda-sorta "separation of church & state" makes me sick:

"...the state will in the future transfer an annual state subsidy to a special church fund for the payment of priests’ salaries."

So Oklahoma intends to openly defy the constitution?

Comment by Loren Miller on January 16, 2019 at 1:41pm

Aaaah, I could have looked it up, but I was too lazy at the time. The fact is, that governor has gone beyond the pale, and he deserves to be clobbered for it.

Comment by Tom Sarbeck on January 16, 2019 at 12:50pm

How do you know when one man is older than another?

The younger one searches the Web for the info he wants, unless he grew up in an authoritarian culture and is still its victim.

Comment by Tom Sarbeck on January 16, 2019 at 12:43pm

Bingo, Loren, the all-knowing Web tells us the OK governor’s oath:

”I, ........., do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support, obey, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Oklahoma, and that I will not, knowingly, receive, directly or indirectly, any money or other valuable thing, for the performance or nonperformance of any act or duty pertaining to my office, other than the compensation allowed by law; I further swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully discharge my duties as Governor of the State of Oklahoma to the best of my ability."

Comment by Loren Miller on January 16, 2019 at 7:59am

I don't know what the oath of office for governor of Oklahoma sounds like, but I'm willing to bet that there's some kind of phrase in there about "upholding the constitution" and NOTHING about promoting the bible or biblical principles.  I hope that Seth Andrews (a native Oklahoman) and the atheists of the Sooner State RAISE HELL about this!

 

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