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No Nonsense

Anti-pseudoscience, anti-woo, pro science, pro critical thinking, no conspiracy theories, no spin. Count the logical fallacies. No Nonsense!

Members: 359
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"Keep an open mind – but not so open that your brain falls out" -unknown

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -- Christopher Hitchens

What is a logical fallacy? All arguments have the same basic structure: A therefore B. They begin with one or more premises (A), which is a fact or assumption upon which the argument is based. They then apply a logical principle (therefore) to arrive at a conclusion (B). An example of a logical principle is that of equivalence. For example, if you begin with the premises that A=B and B=C, you can apply the logical principle of equivalence to conclude that A=C. A logical fallacy is a false or incorrect logical principle. An argument that is based upon a logical fallacy is therefore not valid. It is important to note that if the logic of an argument is valid then the conclusion must also be valid, which means that if the premises are all true then the conclusion must also be true. Valid logic applied to one or more false premises, however, leads to an invalid argument. Also, if an argument is not valid the conclusion may, by chance, still be true. For a more thorough discussion of logical fallacies and how to structure a logical argument, see the New England Skeptical Society's article, How To Argue.

Top 20 Logical Fallacies (in alphabetical order) taken from -

The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe

The New England Skeptical Society The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe Science-Based Medicine
The James Randi Educational Foundation
Propaganda
snopes.com
Bad Science by Ben Goldacre
Simon Singh and his fight to mend British libel laws
Professor Richard Wiseman
PZ Myers' Pharyngula
Dr. Phil Plait and Bad Astronomy
Skeptic Blog
Michael Shermer's Baloney Detection Kit
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan
The Skeptics' Dictionary
List of cognitive biases
Don Watson - Weasel Words
QuackWatch
A List of Fallacious Arguments

Chat #NoNonsense

"No skeptic, to my knowledge, ever made a major scientific discovery or advanced the welfare of others."

-- Deepak Chopra (yes, he actually said that)

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but That's funny..." -Isaac Asimov



The scientific world view is full of awe and wonder. Understanding how truly awesome the universe is – in its elegant complexity, its staggering beauty, and the many intricate systems of which it is comprised – gives a profound feeling of connectedness and sparks the imagination. And it has the advantage of being real. -Steven Novella



The glory which is built upon a lie soon becomes a most unpleasant incumbrance. How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and how hard it is to undo that work again.
— Mark Twain

Discussion Forum

Direct Mind Access

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Idaho Spud Aug 16. 15 Replies

Firehose beats Fact-Check

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Bertold Brautigan Aug 6. 4 Replies

Weaponized Fake Conspiracy

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Aug 4. 4 Replies

Teach Wisdom

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Jun 3. 0 Replies

The Science of Mind Manipulation

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joseph P Apr 10. 22 Replies

Anger-Incitement Playbook

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joseph P Mar 28. 13 Replies

Blue Lies Divide

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Mar 26. 0 Replies

Visceral Vernacular is Great Oration

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Bertold Brautigan Mar 19. 7 Replies

Hyperbolic Discounting

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Mar 12. 3 Replies

How to Mind-Capture a Nation

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Mar 8. 0 Replies

Post-Truth "Reality" Tactics

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joseph P Feb 15. 15 Replies

Snag-Attention Government

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Feb 14. 3 Replies

The Blowfish Fallacy

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Feb 13. 1 Reply

Snake Oil of Doom

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Bertold Brautigan Jan 31. 4 Replies

Media Bubbles - Truth versus Security

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Plinius Jan 15. 4 Replies

Misleading with truth is Paltering

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Jan 14. 1 Reply

On images and moral vacuums

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Jan 10. 2 Replies

Blame as a Fallacy

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Dec 15, 2016. 0 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Joseph P on December 13, 2016 at 5:58pm

@Michael Penn

As for racism it seems more alive now than ever. I started noticing that right after I married a woman from Kenya. Many people are not even aware they are racist.

Hell, I'm well aware that I'm racist.  The little fucker in the back of my head needs to be swatted down periodically.  It's kind of hard, probably impossible, to not have some degree of racist inclination, growing up in ... pretty much any of our societies, now that I think about it.  The key is to recognize it and swat it down, hopefully bringing yourself back as close as you can get to the median point.

Comment by Joseph P on December 13, 2016 at 5:50pm

@Tom Sarbeck

Joseph, about a verb form. (At last, a use for my two years of Latin!!!)

Heh, I'm well aware of past-tense verb forms: imperfect, perfect, pluperfect.  I took three years of Latin in high school and two more classes in college.

The problem is that verb tenses are far more fluid and inconsistent in English.  Our language is kind of fucked up.  For the meaning I was going for to be clear, a compound verb is necessary.

Sorry it took me so long to respond about this.  I wandered off for a bit there.

Comment by Idaho Spud on December 13, 2016 at 2:07pm

Comment by tom sarbeck on December 12, 2016 at 2:26pm
Except, that in November the disaster became thinkable and some of us are thinking of little else.
Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on December 12, 2016 at 1:08pm

Loren, it's not just collective stupidity, it's also complacency. It's like choosing your battles and thinly sliced salami. We didn't arouse ourselves to fight gerrymandering or the law that lets them delete votes if you have the same first and last name as somebody else. Democrats didn't fight their own party to get rid of superdelegates. We didn't fight to make the entire voting process actually one person one vote. Then all of our "comfortable" flaws worked together with corruption and poisoned communication for an unthinkable disaster.

Comment by Loren Miller on December 12, 2016 at 9:00am

Except that this time, it wasn't the majority, Tom, certainly not the voting majority and possibly not the voting-eligible majority.  Drumpf won the same way that Dubya did the first time around: because of a peculiarity of our system of voting known as the Electoral College.

Do all US citizens deserve Drumpf because of a quirk of American government?  Should the United States accept this kind of punishment for its collective stupidity?  Not only do I not think so, I submit that we can't afford it at this juncture.

Comment by tom sarbeck on December 12, 2016 at 8:32am
Loren, who was the wit who said that when people decide issues by voting, "Everyone gets what only the majority deserve"?
Please note, I did not say the American plutocratic oligarchy is a democracy.
Comment by Michael Penn on December 12, 2016 at 8:30am

In my area a man in the Air Force married a Filipino and the locals had fits that he had married a black woman. There was lots of talk even though she was not dark at all. Maybe this guy could have solved the problem by marrying the daughter of Old Charlie and just keep everything local.

Comment by Loren Miller on December 12, 2016 at 8:20am

Addendum, Tom:

BOTH sets of voters failed to see past the blinders circumscribing their narrow and ill-conceived point of view, never mind not considering the full impact of their actions or the possible fallout from a Drumpf presidency.

The consequences of their shared stupidity will be meted out on all of us.  Charming, no?  [no, not really]

Comment by tom sarbeck on December 12, 2016 at 8:18am
About racism, at least in Phoenix.
My wife and I knew a truck driver and his wife, blue collar folk in a blue coller neighborhood, and when they adopted an Amerindian boy the hate erupted.
 

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