No Nonsense

Anti-pseudoscience, anti-woo, pro science, pro critical thinking, no conspiracy theories, no spin. Count the logical fallacies. No Nonsense!

Members: 353
Latest Activity: Dec 8, 2015

"Keep an open mind – but not so open that your brain falls out" -unknown

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -- Christopher Hitchens

What is a logical fallacy? All arguments have the same basic structure: A therefore B. They begin with one or more premises (A), which is a fact or assumption upon which the argument is based. They then apply a logical principle (therefore) to arrive at a conclusion (B). An example of a logical principle is that of equivalence. For example, if you begin with the premises that A=B and B=C, you can apply the logical principle of equivalence to conclude that A=C. A logical fallacy is a false or incorrect logical principle. An argument that is based upon a logical fallacy is therefore not valid. It is important to note that if the logic of an argument is valid then the conclusion must also be valid, which means that if the premises are all true then the conclusion must also be true. Valid logic applied to one or more false premises, however, leads to an invalid argument. Also, if an argument is not valid the conclusion may, by chance, still be true. For a more thorough discussion of logical fallacies and how to structure a logical argument, see the New England Skeptical Society's article, How To Argue.

Top 20 Logical Fallacies (in alphabetical order) taken from -

The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe

The New England Skeptical Society The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe Science-Based Medicine
The James Randi Educational Foundation
Bad Science by Ben Goldacre
Simon Singh and his fight to mend British libel laws
Professor Richard Wiseman
PZ Myers' Pharyngula
Dr. Phil Plait and Bad Astronomy
Skeptic Blog
Michael Shermer's Baloney Detection Kit
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan
The Skeptics' Dictionary
List of cognitive biases
Don Watson - Weasel Words
A List of Fallacious Arguments

Chat #NoNonsense

"No skeptic, to my knowledge, ever made a major scientific discovery or advanced the welfare of others."

-- Deepak Chopra (yes, he actually said that)

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but That's funny..." -Isaac Asimov

The scientific world view is full of awe and wonder. Understanding how truly awesome the universe is – in its elegant complexity, its staggering beauty, and the many intricate systems of which it is comprised – gives a profound feeling of connectedness and sparks the imagination. And it has the advantage of being real. -Steven Novella

The glory which is built upon a lie soon becomes a most unpleasant incumbrance. How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and how hard it is to undo that work again.
— Mark Twain

Discussion Forum

Misleading Public Polls

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Dec 8, 2015. 5 Replies

My arguments are always valid

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck Nov 6, 2015. 4 Replies

The heart of anti-atheist prejudice is distrust

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck Oct 20, 2015. 2 Replies

Can psychics "connect" with a woman's nonexistent dead sister?

Started by Grinning Cat. Last reply by Bertold Brautigan Sep 9, 2015. 10 Replies

Idiocracy Now

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joseph P Sep 2, 2015. 4 Replies

It Takes More Faith to Be an Atheist Than to Believe in God?

Started by Bertold Brautigan. Last reply by Gerald Payne Aug 21, 2015. 21 Replies

Talking Nonsense as US Politcs

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck Aug 17, 2015. 6 Replies

A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem-Solving

Started by Grinning Cat. Last reply by tom sarbeck Jul 4, 2015. 6 Replies

Spot Graphics that Lie

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joseph P Jun 25, 2015. 49 Replies

Susceptibility to Bias

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Jun 23, 2015. 1 Reply

Gish Gallop

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Loren Miller Jun 21, 2015. 7 Replies

Political discourse in US - fundamentally fallacious

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck May 29, 2015. 14 Replies

Liberal Washing

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Gerald Payne May 19, 2015. 4 Replies

Information Technology amplifies irrational group behavior

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Mar 22, 2015. 10 Replies

Hell for christians? Hell for all?

Started by Patricia. Last reply by Bertold Brautigan Mar 3, 2015. 58 Replies

Hunger influences decisions

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joseph P Feb 19, 2015. 2 Replies

Why Name Calling

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Oct 30, 2014. 0 Replies

Psychic Power-NOT

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Michael Penn Oct 14, 2014. 7 Replies

Comment Wall


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Comment by Joseph P on June 18, 2015 at 7:41pm

For what it's worth, morphine is far more effective than the modern opiates, too.  There are just other mild issues to take into account, with morphine.

Comment by Joseph P on June 18, 2015 at 7:38pm

Depends on the kind of pain.  Acetaminophen and aspirin work in completely different ways, dealing with the sources of the pain, so matching up the appropriate medication to the given cause can make a huge difference.

Comment by sk8eycat on June 18, 2015 at 7:37pm

Makes me wonder what company did the testing for Tylenol, and how they got it licensed by the FDA....who paid who off?

I was a "guinea pig" in a major national blood pressure study 20 years ago; they welcomed me with open arms because they really needed more women as subjects.  It was supposed to last for 5 years, but they stopped it after 3 because they were getting the same results from all over the country.  The older, less expensive drugs were more effective than the newer shit.

Comment by Loren Miller on June 18, 2015 at 7:11pm

Tell you what, sk8ey - Tylenol doesn't do a damned thing for me, either.  Good old aspirin does well for casual pain.  For something more serious, I'll go for ibuprofen or naproxen.

Comment by sk8eycat on June 18, 2015 at 6:57pm

Acetaminophen/Tylenol is useless in any form for women; it eases NO pain for us.  And it kills the liver. 

Comment by Joseph P on June 18, 2015 at 6:35pm

... and yeah, Sk8ey, taking one or two Vicodin won't make you high.  You have to take 8 or 10 of the things, I think ... which is a really freaking bad idea, since there's Acetaminophen in those things.  Acetaminophen is one of the easier painkillers to overdose on.

I vaguely remember having a slight relaxation effect to my entire body, when I took two of the things at once.  I can see how taking 4 or 5 times the recommended dosage would make you high.

Comment by Joseph P on June 18, 2015 at 6:23pm

Well, yeah, older medications that did the same things as modern ones kicked a hell of a lot harder than their modern counterparts, in general.

And no, Demerol is a widely-used name.  One of my friends was given Demerol in intravenous form, while she was in the hospital for ... gall bladder surgery, I think it was?  She puked her guts out almost immediately, because the nurses didn't administer the anti-nausea companion-drug quickly enough.

I think that's one of the reasons they don't prescribe it as much as oxycodone and hydrocodone, since so many people have bad nausea as a side-effect.  I thought perhaps it only came in liquid form, since that's the only form I've ever encountered it in, but I found bits of info about Demerol pills, when I was looking up information about it, just now.

Comment by sk8eycat on June 18, 2015 at 6:22pm

I had Demerol back in 1968 (appendectomy)...don't recall any problems with it.

(I've got so many surgical scars that I look like a patchwork quilt, and that's not counting my collection of cat scratches.)

Comment by sk8eycat on June 18, 2015 at 5:59pm

The first two times I was given morphine, I was still a child/adolescent....and I still went to church.  The third time (1962) was another surgical prep, and my skin turned red as soon as the needle touched my arm.  The nurse yelled for Naloxone, STAT! 

Ever since then I have told every doctor I've been to never to give me morphine.  But the MedicAlert bracelet is a better deal....anyone can read it, whether I'm conscious or not.

When I had spinal surgery 6 years ago, they gave me Vicodin problems at alll.  It didn't even make me high.


Comment by Joseph P on June 18, 2015 at 5:04pm

There are plenty of opiates that are similar in origin but have a completely different formulation.  I know one person who gets sick as hell on either Oxycontin or Vicodin and is fine on the other.  I can't remember which one causes her to get sick, though.

Drugs are complicated enough that you shouldn't bar yourself from an entire class of drugs, because one of them causes some bad side effects, for you.  Just tell your doctor that you had bad side-effects with that particular one, and see if you can get a different one.  I think most painkillers are the same schedule, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Besides, depending upon how bad the pain is, it could be worth dealing with the constipation and dry mouth.  Just drink a hell of a lot of water, eat a lot of fiber, and have some coffee, and you should be good.


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