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No Nonsense

Anti-pseudoscience, anti-woo, pro science, pro critical thinking, no conspiracy theories, no spin. Count the logical fallacies. No Nonsense!

Members: 353
Latest Activity: Jun 27

"Keep an open mind – but not so open that your brain falls out" -unknown

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -- Christopher Hitchens

What is a logical fallacy? All arguments have the same basic structure: A therefore B. They begin with one or more premises (A), which is a fact or assumption upon which the argument is based. They then apply a logical principle (therefore) to arrive at a conclusion (B). An example of a logical principle is that of equivalence. For example, if you begin with the premises that A=B and B=C, you can apply the logical principle of equivalence to conclude that A=C. A logical fallacy is a false or incorrect logical principle. An argument that is based upon a logical fallacy is therefore not valid. It is important to note that if the logic of an argument is valid then the conclusion must also be valid, which means that if the premises are all true then the conclusion must also be true. Valid logic applied to one or more false premises, however, leads to an invalid argument. Also, if an argument is not valid the conclusion may, by chance, still be true. For a more thorough discussion of logical fallacies and how to structure a logical argument, see the New England Skeptical Society's article, How To Argue.

Top 20 Logical Fallacies (in alphabetical order) taken from -

The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe

The New England Skeptical Society The Skeptics' Guide To The Universe Science-Based Medicine
The James Randi Educational Foundation
Propaganda
snopes.com
Bad Science by Ben Goldacre
Simon Singh and his fight to mend British libel laws
Professor Richard Wiseman
PZ Myers' Pharyngula
Dr. Phil Plait and Bad Astronomy
Skeptic Blog
Michael Shermer's Baloney Detection Kit
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan
The Skeptics' Dictionary
List of cognitive biases
Don Watson - Weasel Words
QuackWatch
A List of Fallacious Arguments

Chat #NoNonsense

"No skeptic, to my knowledge, ever made a major scientific discovery or advanced the welfare of others."

-- Deepak Chopra (yes, he actually said that)

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but That's funny..." -Isaac Asimov



The scientific world view is full of awe and wonder. Understanding how truly awesome the universe is – in its elegant complexity, its staggering beauty, and the many intricate systems of which it is comprised – gives a profound feeling of connectedness and sparks the imagination. And it has the advantage of being real. -Steven Novella



The glory which is built upon a lie soon becomes a most unpleasant incumbrance. How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and how hard it is to undo that work again.
— Mark Twain

Discussion Forum

Online Game Boosts Skepticism of Fake News

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Jun 27. 1 Reply

Facebook uses fake news outlet as fact checker

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Michael Penn Mar 11. 4 Replies

Measles

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Bertold Brautigan Feb 26. 41 Replies

When Lying Sounds Like a certain kind of Honesty

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Loren Miller Jan 6. 2 Replies

Oil Sector Magical Thinking and Three Year Deadline

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Dec 24, 2018. 2 Replies

Great Intro on avoiding mind control

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Dec 11, 2018. 3 Replies

Fear and Groupthink

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Dec 8, 2018. 1 Reply

Mind Control Speech Pathology

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Nov 14, 2018. 3 Replies

Slightly Sort Of Self-Delusional Climate Science

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Nov 5, 2018. 5 Replies

Hierarchy Erodes Truth

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Oct 1, 2018. 3 Replies

GOP Embraces Blatant Lies and Deranged Role Model

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Sep 22, 2018. 5 Replies

Truth Decay - Dire Consequences

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Sep 20, 2018. 1 Reply

Changed by the Attention Economy

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Aug 7, 2018. 15 Replies

Freedom within Atheist Nexus

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Jan 9, 2018. 1 Reply

Failing to imagine systemic risks

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Bertold Brautigan Jan 1, 2018. 1 Reply

Permanent Lie leads to collective psychosis

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by tom sarbeck Dec 23, 2017. 1 Reply

Firehose beats Fact-Check

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Nov 26, 2017. 10 Replies

Unwitting Belief Change

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck Nov 19, 2017. 2 Replies

Conservative Media Engineers Post-Truth Politics

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Loren Miller Oct 31, 2017. 2 Replies

Kids' Entertainment - Bombing Civilians

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Oct 8, 2017. 2 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Tom Sarbeck on April 2, 2019 at 11:32am

“What is the remedy?” Joan asks.

Thanks, Joan, for the concern you express and for the history.

I doubt the existence of a remedy, but if we can keep the Trump-dominated GOP out of public office there is what we might call “emergency room treatment” for the most egregious ills.

There is also what we might call “genetic engineering”, the slow and steady but hard-to-see growth of employee-owned companies.

There never has been and never will be a so-called Garden of Paradise. We optimistically-named Homo Sapiens are but the present occupants of a universe unlimited in time or space.

Now, back to my other writing....

Comment by Joan Denoo on April 2, 2019 at 2:49am

"Then, in the late 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, the environmental movement began to crest. Nationally, some of the landmarks of the movement were

* the successful fight to prevent construction of the Echo Park Dam on the Green River, along the Utah-Colorado border,

*in the mid-1950s; passage of the Wilderness Act of 1964 and

*the Endangered Species Act of 1973;

*creation of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in 1969; *celebration of the first Earth Day in 1970.

In Washington state, some of the landmarks of the movement were the

*creation of Metro in Seattle and King County in

*1958 to clean up Lake Washington;

*the creation of the North Cascades National Park complex in 1968 and

*the Columbia River Gorge National Scenic Area in 1986;  *cancellation of federal support, based in part on environmental concerns, for Boeing's Supersonic Transport project in 1971.

*A fascinating look at the debates over preservation vs. use of western lands and rivers, with a long section on North Cascades, is John McPhee, Encounters with the Archdruid (New York: Farrar, Straus, and Giroux, 1971). The "archdruid" is wilderness advocate David Brower.]

In Oregon, the movement crested with the election of Tom McCall as governor in 1967 and the

*campaign to prevent in-migration of Californians to the state during the 1970s.

McCall gave voice to the new way of looking at the Northwest in 1973 by suggesting that quantitative and qualitative measurements of "success" in the Northwest might, in some circumstances, be mutually exclusive: "Unlimited and unregulated growth leads inexorably to a lowered quality of life." Most Northwesterners were not yet prepared, of course, to renounce growth altogether, so they spoke instead about "regulating" or "managing" or "limiting" it.

*But as an ethos for regional society, growth was questioned more sharply than ever before." (emphasis mine)

Spokane's Expo '74; A World's Fair for the Environment

Comment by Joan Denoo on April 2, 2019 at 2:40am

Spokane's Expo '74; A World's Fair for the Environment

"Tacoma's ASARCO Smelter, while in operation, was a symbol of both economic growth and environmental pollution. (Special Collections, University of Washington. Photo by Howard Clifford.)

"at the same time that socialists and utopians had imagined a different kind of Pacific Northwest, a new measure of fulfillment began to emerge slowly in the region and around the country, one focused more on qualitative rather than quantitative criteria and one that paid greater attention than before to the environment."

Comment by Joan Denoo on April 2, 2019 at 2:29am

I would like to see LGBTQ take on the ownership of formerly religious property. If they used proper engineering techniques to keep the heating costs down, and also enjoy the strength of well-built buildings, we all gain. 

I like the idea of art galleries, concert halls, community gathering places, and conversion to private residences. I also like the idea of demolishing structurally unsound buildings and creating low-income housing, and even shelter for the homeless. 

It is outrageous that there exist homeless individuals and families in this era of wealth. Spokane World's Fair of 1974 offered the image of robots and machines taking on the role of performing the work. Another theme was leaving leisure time for everyone able to earn a living wage. With a shortened work-day and fewer work weeks in the year, more people could make a living wage. The standard of living moved the poor into the middle class, eliminating the category of people who usually live below the poverty line.  More people earning incomes would put more money into flow. Workers would have the ability to afford decent housing, healthy and adequate food for all, access to education and healthcare, and retirement plans that people could live out their elder years in safety, security, and stability. Fathers and mothers earned enough to live decent lives even as they enjoyed the benefits of leisure time. 

Growth after WW II meant more businesses and industries, with more workers, most with skills requiring training and education. This period used quantitative measures for success, without thinking of the cost to individuals in stress-filled jobs, high tension in homes, and splitting back into the wealth gap that devastates society in the late 1920s and 1930s.

It took WW II to get the nation growing again, but this time, 1974, there was a hint of concern for the environment and a culture that provided less stress to individuals working in businesses and industries. The desire to protect the Earth emerged with a desire for technology to do the work and allow the people to have more leisure time.

That is what I saw in Spokane's Worlds Fair in 1974. Qualitative measures counted in the ratio of success. Let machines do the work and give workers more leisure. 

That vision failed. Not only are workers worn out, but management also is stressed out as they walk that tightrope of quantity vs. quality measurements. Again, the wealth gap grows along with discontent. 

What is the remedy? 

Comment by Grinning Cat on April 1, 2019 at 10:39pm

(Man in suit looking skeptically at laptop) April Fool's Day is the one day of the year when people critically evaluate news articles before accepting them as true.

Comment by Patricia on March 11, 2019 at 12:32pm

Lots of good alternatives.

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on March 11, 2019 at 10:03am

Brewing tanks instead of an altar. Nice!

Comment by Plinius on March 11, 2019 at 2:31am

church into bookshop

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor book church limburg

Comment by Grinning Cat on March 10, 2019 at 11:01pm

Also from the Friendly Atheist comments: (((Hornèd Pontilibratificus))) wrote about the challenges of keeping heating costs reasonable in high-ceilinged spaces:

There are some good techniques for combating this problem. You can use both traditional radiant heat and in-floor circulation heating, coupled with down-draft ceiling fans. All that really brings the heating costs down. ;-)

Comment by Patricia on March 10, 2019 at 10:57pm

That would be a good step.

 

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