Creation and Evolution cab never co-exist. Creation is purely un-supported flight of imagination born out of ignorance and sustained by arrogance. Evolution is a researched truth. Belief in Creation is a blind belief and such a belief is an insult to human intellegince. Blind faith has now only limited time on this planet. Not only these two cannot co-exist but they should not be allowed to coexist in the interest of our children and future generations, lest they accuse us of misleading them. They are anyway going to learn the truth, then why allow them to be ignorent even for a small time?  

Madhukar Kulkarni.

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You are right-----but I am less hopeful about the problem ever being wholly solved. The progress that we want, and which the human race deserves, will be slow to achieve because of the gullibility of so many.

Most believers genuinely accept the myths they were taught. Too many force their baseless beliefs on susceptible children when the latter are young---either directly at home or through school or at their god-worshipping place. This cycle needs to be broken. I spent much of my life thinking that schools will play a major role in this. Alas, although some do, many do not.

At present, American candidates for the presidency play the religious-belief card-game at election time.

The USA now has a Mormon who would like to be president: Mitt Romney.

Mormons believe the fictions that an angel called Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith and showed him a christian testament on gold plates that very soon vanished, that god lives near a planet called Kolob, and that humans can become gods of their own universes! The number of gullible suckers is far higher than our planet merits.



The number of gullible suckers is far higher than our planet merits.

 The wealth of the mega church founders and their minions is testament to the gullibility of their followers. 


Don't forget.  According to Ole Joe Smith, the Garden of Eden, along Adam and Eve, were originally in Jackson County, Missouri.

P.T. Barnum was right.

Dr. Meaden, I do not share your pessimism. A period of 100 or 200 years is not long in the life of humanity. Science has demolished many myths in a relatively short time and within next 100 to 200 years, growth of science will completely destroy all religions and all faiths assiciated with it. EVEN AMERICA WILL NOT BE AN EXCEPTION. All we have to do is to help accelerate the pace of this process. 


My pessimism---in the manner I expressed it---derives from the tenacity with which some religions enchain their brainwashed followers---above all, the muslims.

In the theocratic ruled countries, death for apostasy scares the wits out of any practical defiance. 

Dear Dr. Meaden, I completely agree with your anxiety about brainwashed followers, and, as you say, particularly the Muslims. The Muslim fundamentalist activities will be going on for some more time but will eventually cause a backlash not only among non-muslims but among the muslims as well. As I have said before, it is just a matter of time. The good thing that will come out of the ensuing turmoil will be the demise of all religious faiths. The world one day is going to replace religion with atheist humanism. All atheists therefore should make every possible effort to accelerate this process.



Some of your words ("...should not be allowed to coexist...." and "...why allow them....") have a perhaps-unintended authoritarian flavor. Ditto for some of the words of several others who posted here.

I grew up in an authoritarian (ethnic German) home and was sent to authoritarian (Catholic) schools. Both relied on fear to achieve the results they wanted. More authoritarianism will not assuage the fear people feel and will not produce the results we all need.


Tom, I did not interpret Madhukar Kulkarni's words as authoritarian. Rather, it was a matter of fine rhetoric, i.e. his oratory.

Yes, I know the feelings of fear of an infant and the coping strategies I learned to survive.  My earliest memory is of looking through the bars of my crib as my father beat my mother to bloody unconsciousness.  I hid under the pillow screaming silently, "Stop!" Nothing stopped and I learned how to hide, follow directions, do what I was told, depend on others to tell me right from wrong and to appease others;  modern science calls this "learned helplessness".

You can imagine how debilitating that strategy is for a mature human being faced with real world problems.  The logical consequences of those early experiences resulted in hatred for my father and even hatred for my mother because she lived to her 60s and died as a result of a beating from my father.  It took her two months to die in the hospital, but she died rather than return to her hell.  

I married a man who abused me and our children and I/we "survived" for 10 years until I said, "God damn god, Jesus, the church and its complicity community. One minister, Richard C. Halverson, of 4th Presbyterian Church, Bathesda, MD, and chaplain for the USA Senate ( told me, "when you are being beaten, realize you are living your life in imitation of the crucified Christ.  Of all women, you are most blessed; rejoice in your crucifixion." 

Writing my doctoral dissertation, "A splendid Heresy," I named this the "Passive Gospel": yield, pray, obey, turn the other cheek, love him to the lord, crucify myself daily and rejoice in my crucifixion."   I worked for years in battered women's and children's' programs and heard variations on this theme over and over and over.  

Abuse, mental, physical, and emotional, should not be allowed.  


Dear Tom, Thank you very much for pointing out apparent flaws in my language. Your sensitivity about authoritarianism has been impressed upon my mind.  I will certainly be more careful in future. All I meant to do was to give strong emphasis to the points I was making. At the end of your comment, you talk about the results we want. Kindly elaborate on this and let us know your idea of the desired results.


Madhukar, we probably want similar results. How do we get them?

In the New Oxford American Dictionary, "authoritarian" refers to obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom, to a lack of concern for the wishes and opinions of others, while "authoritative" refers to accuracy or truth, self-confident, likely to be respected and obeyed.

The first arises from weakness; the second from strength.


Dear Tom,

You are asking me how to get results. First I must tell you what results I mean. As atheists, out first concern should be eradication of blind faith. The second thing to do should be to tell people that humanism tempered by conscience is actually going to be the religion of the future and prepeare them to accept and practice this new religion.

To do this, atheist organisations all over the world must shed their regional nature, pool their resources to become active where ever they can in the world.  We can not wait for the world to follow us as and when it wakes up.  Atheist organisations can start by printing small and simple  literature on  atheist subjects and distribute it free among the young, get them together to find their counter views and persuade them to realise the future. This can not be done by holding large conventions. This is to be done by promoting formation of small atheist cells.





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