An African American male currently living in South Carolina has been genetically linked to a 338,000 year old pre-modern human. The genetic link was made by determining a match between the Y (male) chromosomes of the two. The oldest modern humans go back no more than 200,000 years. It appears that theists will have even more explaining to do now in their attempt to establish that modern humans didn't evolve from lower forms of animals. Per the article:


A miniscule bit of DNA from an African American man now living in South Carolina has been traced back 338,000 years, according to a new study. The man’s Y chromosome — a hereditary factor determining male sex — has a history that’s so old, it even predates the age of the oldest known Homo sapiens fossils, according to the report, published in the American Journal of Human Genetics. The fellow’s chromosome turned out to carry a rare mutation, which researchers matched to a similar chromosome in the Mbo, a population living in a tiny area of western Cameroon in sub-Saharan Africa. “Our analysis indicates this lineage diverged from previously known Y chromosomes about 338,000 ago, a time when anatomically modern humans had not yet evolved,” Michael Hammer, who worked on the study, said in a press release.

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What do you mean Chris ?


Just what I said: time to celebrate that we and the other animals are all family.

Thanks. I like it. I've been up all night so it's time to sleep for me.

Have a nice night brother.

The Unintelligent supporters of Intelligent Design will find new ways to question every new scientific discovery that threatens their faith.

Madhukar, did you recieve my March 6 message:  It was returned to me undeliverable. 

Madhukar, I am so very happy to get your response. I was puzzled why you =

didn't respond to my emails. Your book is so good, and says so many =

things that need to be said, and you write beautifully, it needs to be =

read by those who wonder why religion has such a nasty grip on people. =

It is indoctrination and to a no  good end. You organize material well, =

it has a flow easily followed, it speaks to the yearnings of questioning =


Wait, what?  What's with the weird formatting in that message?  You having problems with your account getting hacked or something, Joan?

I have been having problems getting messages through to Madhukar and so copied it over to this spot. The = are line end markers from the copy. 

Also, far too many times I don't get the formatting menu: "Link, photo, movie, T, B, etc.)

Do you share any of these problems? Don't know if it is my computer, or A/N.


I am really puzzled why fundamentalists promote Intelligent Design. There is no support for their claims. I watched a couple of debates by Lawrence Krauss and Michael Shermer debating believers who just make no sense.

"Science Refutes God" Debate [FULL] - Intelligence Squared U.S. 

This is perhaps off subject but I thought it worth expressing while in my mind.

In an article I read this week headed "Scientists question the accuracy promised by DNA sampling", Prof Steve Jones wrote "If I get a white European to shake hands with the person next to them, there is about a 30% probability that they are talking to their seventh or eighteenth cousin. The common ancestor of everyone alive today lived something like 3,500 years ago. So you are not saying anything when you have your DNA test done and find out you are descended from Romans. Everybody is." 

By the way, my DNA haplogroup is I1b2a. Is any reader's DNA close to this?

I had both sides tested by National Geographic. It gives you a series of markers associated with narratives and corresponding places on a map. Your final marker is what it calls your haplogroup. My father's side was P37.2. They survived the ice age in the Balkans and migrated north toward Scandinavia. On the way some moved east through Ukraine. My father's side was a Ukrainian people that migrated to Austria. 57% of Balkan men carry P37.2. whereas 7% of Polish men carry it.


National Geographic called my mother's haplogroup simply H. Again, H was the last marker in a series of markers for her. It is supposed to be associated with high technology cultures and is very heavily western European. My mother's side was Italian.


According to NG my ancestors on both sides were among the first modern humans to leave Africa. I plan to have NG test me again with a new procedure that, among other things, will reveal how much Neanderthal and Denisovan I have in me. In that my ancestors were among the first to leave I indeed might have some.

You can look at what NG is doing if you visit the group, DNA Tested Nonbelievers, of which you are a member. In the material NG is saying that, as opposed to the 3,500 year figure, the most recent common male ancestor of everybody lived 140,000 years ago and the most recent common female ancestor of everybody lived 180,000 years ago. Professor Jones might be off a little bit.

Hello John.

Please forgive the briefest of replies as I am overwhelmed with academic work now. On my mother's side I am U5, common to those in and from the Ukrainian climate refuge of the last Ice Age---following which migration north then west took hunter-gatherers to western Europe and a walk into peninsular Britain (before the land bridge broke around 6500 BC). Same haplogroup as the Cheddar skeleton of 10,000 years ago and a teacher born and bred in Cheddar called Adrian Targett. My father's side I1b2a could well be from the Mediterranean north-coastal refuge where fairly common. Fairly common too in Britain possibly due to early hunter gatherer immigration following the herds before 6500 BC. 


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