Doesn't the new testament bible talk about aquarius/ganymede. So to me the new testament is no better then the old testament like many liberal fluffy loving xtians proclaim think. I'm trying to research negative things about the new testament any help would be great:) One thing I found out while researching human sacrifice within christianity is that their is some evidence that the bible was edited to change the fact that Isaac was actually sacrificed.

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I wonder if it's not just a way of bashing other people - bashing them with the morality stick.  It seems to go - I make judgments about your moral values, then bash you with it....  how moral is that!

@Alice:   "It is an American obsession, that hasn't come up in my 35 years of living in the UK and Australia - both countries don't really seem to give a crap about morals" 

I think you're referring mainly to semantic differences, because everyone cares about morals, such as theft, fairness, crime, child care, warfare, etc.  It's more a matter of how people discuss moral issues, whether they're explicit about it (such as with jerry Falwell's famous Moral Majority), and how they derive them.


"I saw a show somewhere the other day about babies who get upset when a soft toy doesn't share"

NY Times article:  The Moral Life of Babies

The experiments were done by Paul Bloom of the Infant Cognition Center at Yale University.

"A growing body of evidence, though, suggests that humans do have a rudimentary moral sense from the very start of life. With the help of well-designed experiments, you can see glimmers of moral thought, moral judgment and moral feeling even in the first year of life. Some sense of good and evil seems to be bred in the bone."

Thanks George.

The people that I hung out with when I was growing up - in the UK - seemed more interested in supporting each other than talking about how immoral people were.

They would gloss over all moral things in order to support each others' feelings.  I realise that this is in itself a moral act - but I suppose they were more interested in being loyal and moral 'in group' than moralising - going around making judgmental comments about everyone else's moral values.

Speaking as someone who has studied human evolution at university level (bsc Palaeobiology & Evolution) and as a father, I can tell you that children are born with the usual 'survival of the fittest' instincts, just like all the other apes. What we call morals, are learned, just like our need to understand our place in existence and our survival instincts. Unfortunatly these things are often raped and possessed by religion (I speak from experience here also, to my shame).

Lucky old apes though stop learning most new things around about three and don't have the cognative ability to comprehend stupid ideas like god.

Stuart - what are your thoughts on the roughly 0.3% of vegans?  They claim to be more ethical than the rest of us.  Are they?  What are ethics for anyway?  Perhaps ethics and morals are only there as an evolutionary strategy for us to look after each other in a group for shared protection and hunting purposes - without which we would have been alone and died off....  for lack of protection and meat.  Could it be that morals and ethics have got out of control in some and misguided away from our immediate group, extending into areas that are superfluous to our needs?  I'm really curious about your thoughts on this, yourself being trained in evolution.... :)

In some way Vegans are. From an environmental point of view, eating veg requires less growing space and doesn't produce shed loads of livestock farting methane. Our need to nurture puts some people off of eating meat or dairy etc. However, here's a very plausible sinario for you.
Humanity, now able to work out what elements are required for our bodies from different superfruits and veges, abandons meat. Over the millenia we evolve to more efficiently deal with veg and loose the ability to process meat effectively. Inevitably, Yellowstone or some other super volcano blows its top and blocks out the sunlight killing all our crops. Only starving animals or fish are available as food with the exception of mushrooms where it's warm enough to grow them.
Yes it is an overly simplistic view and yes there are many other variables, but a super volcano almost killed us once before.

Ok first of all. ALL Books in the Bible. (Pick your version) There are over 100 were dissected and picked apart as to shed the best light on Jesus and God.

Here is a small list of Biblical Versions

King James Version
New International Version
Revised Standard Version
The Living Bible
New Living Translation
World English Bible
New King James Version
New International Readers Editions
American Standard Version
New American Standard Version
Young's Literal Translation
Plain English Bible
New English Bible
Amplified Bible
Basic English Bible
Translator's NT
20th Century Bible
Modern King James Version
The Message
New Jerusalem Bible
Hebrew Names Version of World English Bible
Contemporary English Version
English Version for the Death
Good News Version
New Century Version
New Revised Standard Version
J. B. Phillips New Testament, modern English

Just to name a few. LOL And all of the "Books" in each Bible were Hand (Edited) Picked by the church.
In my opinion they left out the most interesting stories. Like the story where Young Jesus pushes a friend off a roof and later revives him only because his parents chastise him.
One of the apocryphal books tells the story of Jesus as a child. In this book Jesus brings a childhood friend back to life who fell off a roof when they are playing together (I don't think Jesus pushed him off the roof). But there's another story in it where Jesus is criticized by a teacher as being too stubborn, and he tells the teacher to curl up and die. The teacher does. Then, after being rebuked by his parents, Jesus brings him back to life.

But these books were left out of the New Testament because they didn't agree with current 'orthodox' teaching about Jesus. The picture we have of Jesus from the New Testament is that he would never kill anyone. And there are no stories about Jesus as a child except the one about him teaching the scholars in the Temple.
I'd like people to open their eyes to the reality of the bible... altered many times, important information left out for various reasons... 80+ gospels actually.......
And that's my say.

thanks for everyone's help. I agree the story is mythical but many christians have told me that mass genocide is okay because the pagans allowed human sacrifice unlike the Jewish people. So I tried to research human sacrifice in the bible to prove this to be untrue. I will talk more about aquarius/ganymede later because I'm still researching this topic more. I agree with what george said about eternal hellfire and I think its important to realize how young children are hurt when they are told they must believe in christianity or they will go to hell. I agree with what natalie and Joseph said it's great to meet like minded people:) I'm sorry if its hard for me to word things right online. Thanks for all your comments I liked them all a lot:)

Like I said, just whip out Judges 11 on them, when they try that shit.

Also, they're reading Abraham and Isaac wrong.  God stopped Abraham from killing his son, because he decided it wasn't necessary at this time.  That doesn't change the underlying fact that Abraham realized that his god would ask for something like a human sacrifice.  There's something in there that's been glossed over.

Please expand on that theory about the Bible being edited to change the facxt that Isaac was actually sacrificed.

As for the actual question, I think the answer is sure . . . that's not a bad way to go. Get your morals from a loving new testament Jesus, for the most part. But on the other had he is attributed with saying.

"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." Which is one problematic text.

In general the ethic of love and forgiveness is a good one, including love your enemy. But I was surprised how many christians went out of their way to try to love Osama Bin Laden after he was killed. I only have so much love and generosity to go around and I'm not going to waste it on a mass murderer.

Off topic: these adds don't seem very well targeted. One at the top of this page is advertising "Free information on online programs in bible study, chaplaincy, christian ministry, and more!"

As for Chaplaincy, and Ministry you should check out "The First Church of Atheism" You can be Ordained as an Atheism Priest! (Whatever that means) But it's good for a laugh, or to slap on to your Resume! LOL

Ordain Me!


Side Note:

As a legally ordained minister, you will be able to perform weddings, funerals, commitment ceremonies, and other functions that are reserved for members of clergy.

Since its inception, the First Church of Atheism has amassed quite a following around the world. FCA ministers come from all walks of life. They are every race, ethnicity, age, and creed. The one thing binding every FCA minister is his or her belief in science, reason, and reality.

The First Church of Atheism wants you to pursue and cherish your realistic beliefs without interference from any outside agency, including government or church authority. We provide our service for free, as we believe it is every atheists right to perform these clergy functions.

You may become a LEGALLY ordained Minister for life, without cost, and without question

Richard Elliot friedman is  one biblical scholar that wrote how Isaac/abraham was edited/fabricated. I'm trying to research all of this and find more information. I thank everyone for their awesome help. But not only do we have isaac but we also have numerous references to sacrifice of first born cute babies and jephthah innocent daughter. I just mention this because to me religion doesn't make us good. Modern day humanism is what makes America a much better place. It's great to be on a site with awesome freethinkers that help me and give me useful feedback thanks so much:)




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