I've been following these "laws" and associated kerfuffle over the Islamic veil with only a passing interest until the other day something stuck me - rather like being poked in the eye with the corner of a KJ Bible.

If I correctly understand the "idea" of the veil (the one described in the Qu'ran; not the other ones) is to cover the hair of female adherents to protect them from us leering males.

Cloth was simple and make as we know it up had not been thought of; so no prizes for guessing where I'm going with this.

While standing in a shop waiting to be served my a youngish Muslim woman of non-Caucasian origin) I found my interest piqued by the sheer amount of makeup she was sporting.

Now folks, we're not just talking foundation here - this was the whole enchilada from mascara to eyebrow pencils to (most revealingly) a fairly distinct lipstick. Looking at other Muslims of a similar age, this became a theme - the norm, not an exception.

Lipstick is particularly relevant - I recall studies suggesting that red lips are suggestive of the engorged female genitalia; and there seems to be some credence to this.

Add to that the amazing colours some of these women wear in their veils and you have to wonder if old wasshiface is spinning in his grave.

Seems to be they're having their religious cake and then rubbing our noses in it.


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Uhhhh, David, you screwed something up when you embedded those videos. They're not working.
I just tried all 3, and they work.
Every time I start a video, it plays for literally about a tenth of a second, and then I jump to the Atheist Nexus page:

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Anyone else getting this problem? The videos I embedded over in another thread work just fine. Are you using the embed code that YouTube provides, David? I get the usual object with the video in it, but then I've got some garbage below the video:

" target="_blank">

And when I embed the same video ...

... it works just fine. Which browser are you using?
Chrome. Odd as hell this, when I came back here a couple minutes ago, the Condell vid I posted wouldn't buffer, but the other 2 were fine, and so was yours, then I reloaded the page and the one I posted is fine, I'm listening to it as I type this, 3 minutes in. When I posted my first response , all 3 were working for me. And still are.
I would send a message to MoJoe ASAP, this isn't the first time I've had problems, but I don't see any right now at all. I was having a problem with a security program and Firefox was giving me trouble, I got new security and switched to Chrome weeks ago and have had zero trouble since. Very strange.
Are you using the embed code that YouTube provides?
Yeah, and all 3 are working fine on my computer. I wonder if both of the same vids on the same page are doing something to ning? I haven't had trouble posting video for many weeks.
I just wonder what sort of wonky code you're getting from YouTube that it would be different from what I'm getting. You'd think that it would give browser-independent code, since it doesn't matter which browser the person posting the code is using, for their purposes. When someone is going to be posting it somewhere for other random people to view, you don't want that.

It would help if other people chime in, as the day goes on, so we can see if it's isolated or some sort of systemic problem.
I've been posting almost daily on one group or another, without incident or complaint. It is a mystery.
Which groups? I can go check them out.

OK, now for me to say something completely non-intellectual. Many of the Muslim women I have seen in the Middle East, Asia and Europe who wear the garb you describe are FREAKING HOT!! I have many times thought exactly what you are describing. Many times they wear tight jeans, are very pretty with great figures, have lots of makeup on, and that head scarf only makes them more attractive. OK, so i know I went farther than you did and you were mostly talking about how much makeup, not if they are necessarily attractive or not, but I wanted to offer my thoughts because you hit on something I've often thought about.

Related story: When I was in Kuwait with a buddy who happens to be a college professor out at UCLA we were walking through a mall. This mall is very trendy and as nice as anything in the US or Europe I think. Anyway, he stops me and said "you HAVE to go back there and walk through here again, you missed something interesting." He told me not to be obvious but to look into this Victoria Secret type store. When I did I saw a woman completely covered, head-to-toe, with only her eyes showing. She was holding some very sexy lingerie in front of her body, as if she had any idea at all what it would look like over that traditional garb she was wearing. OK, maybe it was only funny if you saw it in person??

I can buy that image - and laugh loudly - but I also have to imagine that she was trying to see how it would look on her for her husband.

As for headscarves (ok, -ish) my earliest memory is of Ena Sharples (google her if you dare) - but you need a strong stomach to face that without a few pints.

Headscarves were common where I grew up - but they were worn as an effective method to keep out the cold. The men just toughed it out in a cloth cap.

Halcyon days.




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