I always here the theists saying God is self existing. Really now. Why can't the universe be self existing as well.

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Yes, and the bible states that god is the Alpha and Omega, therefore, there WAS a beginning.

Remember, I think, therefore I am.

Then, they must explain how he was BEFORE Alpha.

How did god think before he was.

William, your last sentence is short, neat, and effectively right; and Patricia expresses it well too. "It just is....".  

Who made god?

Someone who had no other idea about the world or how it works.

The shame is that whoever originally came up with the idea of a god had no idea what the implications of that idea was.  Later, once the idea had metastasized a bit, someone else realized that said idea could be USED.

And so it began.

God was made by humans, for humans, and it became a tool of domination.

Or, as Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900 CE) once said,

Is man one of God's blunders? Or is God one of man's blunders?”

Man blunders all over the place.  Why shouldn't he blunder with the concept of a deity?

I go with god is one of man's blunders!


This God thing is a mental disorder

Mass Hysteria

Gang Mentality


In the beginning of human thought man created his gods in his own image and was under the misgiving that he and his gods were the masters of the universe. The humans that did not create their god in their own image physically, did give him qualities of similar thought and emotion as themselves. They also gave him the credit for the creation of the earth as they knew it, but not the entire universe, itself, because they themselves knew nothing about it. Therefore neither did their god. The beginning of the Bible's Old Testament is similar with the so-called firmament, which meant roof. They knew that there were little pinholes of light in this roof but had no idea what they were and their god did not know either.

Man has always been of the impression that its man-made supernatural being created and controlled the entire known world and all the living entities therein.

The idea that we, the human race, a miniscule entity in this vast universe, with our own imaginary invention of an all powerful god should have created everything is the height of egomania. We think we are so important that we had a hand in the creation of this universe and everything in it. We take credit for every small detail of this earth and its creatures; the thoughts, actions and emotions through our self-made supernatural master.

The so-called creationists, the epitome of all egotists, even talk to this man-made illusion and ask for help in their daily life thinking that their god is the one who created them and all the other humans on the earth. They know that they were created by him according to the book of Jewish mythology, Genesis. Evolution and anything else scientific that differs from the Bible is considered to be blasphemy and untrue. But even the Catholic Church accepts evolution. In the 1950 Encyclical Humani Generis, Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces.

This is a shift in regard to the fact that as late as 1633 the leaders of the Vatican persecuted the astronomer Galileo for having the arrogance to declare that the Earth was not the center of the universe. However, he was fortunate in the fact that in 1600, a man named Giordano Bruno was convicted of being a heretic for believing that the earth moved around the Sun, and that there were many planets throughout the universe where life existed. Bruno was executed.  His clothes were taken off, he was bound to a stake and burned alive.

Most rational people do not believe in all the creation stories handed down through the centuries and have the intelligence to trace and understand evolution even as far universe is concerned. Many can go back to the big bang theory, the original singularity of infinite density. But there it usually stops. Even the most rational may say, so who created that? Why would it be, who? Why would it come down to the man-made creator?

All people have a spirituality. We are born with it. Some may call it a god gene. But it is there. As dogs spontaneously and without being taught scratch up the turf and dirt to cover up their bodily waste. As most young boys play with trucks and most young girls play with dolls; it is hereditary. It is normal for even the strongest atheist to think “who” created the big bang? But it shouldn't be.

Realists could think of god if, it must be, as an unknown force, with nothing to do with the fates and actions of human beings. A force like gravity. A force in the universe similar to light with no human attributes. Just there and always there. The original singularity and more, much more. Nothing to explain and nothing explainable. A simple force of nature that is responsible for the birth and death of stars, comets, nebulae, black holes and yes, the creation itself.




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