ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

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ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

We debate origins of the Universe, life, Earth, humans, religion, atheism, using common sense, evolution, cosmology, geology, archaeology, and other sciences, to repel biblical creationism and other religious beliefs.

Location: Oxford University, England
Members: 4182
Latest Activity: Nov 17

The portrait is Charles Darwin, age 31, in 1840

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Has man evolved?

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The Probability Of Being

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Johns Hopkins Receives $125,000,000 to Fight Cancer

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A new theory explaining the origins of life?

Started by Donald L. Engel. Last reply by Donald L. Engel Mar 31. 5 Replies

Map of Archaic Ancestry

Started by Qiana-Maieev. Last reply by Joseph P Mar 29. 5 Replies

Homo Erectus food processing

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Mar 19. 1 Reply

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Comment by Tommy on November 18, 2010 at 5:57am
My guess would be that there was a man named Jesus. Can you imagine the impact of a Jim Jones or David Koresh 2000 years ago. We have had many people that have claimed the title of the son of god and if, in this day in time people are stupid enough to fall for this can you imaging how gullible people a couple of centuries ago would be. I am most interested in the brain washing affect religion has on people. It is absolutely amazing to me that otherwise intelligent people taught to believe from birth can almost tremble at the thought that their god might not exist. My son who is now in college told me yesterday he was jumped in school (8th grade) for being an atheist. The teacher told him he deserved it. I think its because people are afraid of atheist and realize that if they were forced to think about it they could not believe any longer. I have heard that the bible was originally used as a way to control the people and if this is true the bible is the most powerful brain washing weapon of all time. Its like a virus of the mind. Rather Jesus actually existed I doubt if we will ever know for sure. We do know the bible exist and was the grandest scam in human history.
Comment by Dr. Cowboy on November 17, 2010 at 10:16pm
No, the bible is no more credible as a historical document than Homer's Odyssey is an accurate description of what it was like to sail the seas of ancient Greece. However, even with no evidence it's not impossible that both Jesus and Odysseus were based on actual people. The reason there's no contemporary mention of Jesus is most likely because A) if he existed it's unlikely that he or anybody that knew him could write and B) probably the same reason that nobody wrote about Peter the Ditch Digger. He probably just wasn't that important at the time.
I've heard intriguing rumors that Jesus might have had a brother (also of virgin birth maybe?) and that he took over his ministry after Jesus died. I have no idea if there's any truth to it at all, but it does suggest a way for the stories about him to have begun to become exaggerated to mythical proportions. Oral tradition has a way of doing that.
At any rate, I feel that whether he actually existed or not in unimportant. Even if there were an actual person on whom the stories are based, it's unlikely the stories are an accurate reflection of him by any stretch of the imagination.
Comment by Gregg Deering on November 17, 2010 at 9:43pm
I don't think archeology can ever tell us anything about Jesus. He's a literary invention. What would we expect a Jesus coin? Up to this point what has archeology told us about Jesus, noting, what has it told us about the Exodus - it never happened. Mind you I don't think we could prove Jesus did not exist, but we can show (not conclusively) that there is not historical core. For instance stories of Jesus have origins in the Old Testament - and specifically the Greek translation of the OT at that.

The Bible, particularly the NT are religious books, are not histories and would not be seen as histories by the readers at the time, in fact that's why the Gospels were called "Good News" not Histories. Unlike Histories of the period - the four Gospels (or several dozen Gospels) are all anonymous.

Remember that Peter Pan can tell us a lot about turn of the Century London, but that does not mean Peter Pan existed. Maybe Sherlock Holmes wold be a better example?
Comment by Gregg Deering on November 17, 2010 at 9:17pm
There is not historical or archaeological evidence that backs up the NT. We know for sure that there was a mythical Jesus but - we don't know for sure that there was a human Jesus. And there is no agreement on what sort of person this Jesus was. Indecently historical Jesus believers don’t even know his real name - when he was born or died.

Absence of evidence certainly is absence of evidence - for Jesus and unicorns.

There is absolutely no way to take the God and impossible bits out of the Gospels and find a real person. It’s a subject that cries out for real historians instead of wish fulfillment.
Comment by Dr. Cowboy on November 17, 2010 at 8:42pm
It's entirely plausible that Jesus actually existed. However, considering that the gospels were written around 100 AD or so, it's unlikely that he even remotely resembles the person (or persons, rather) portrayed there. There's an interesting documentary on the Gospel of Judas (available via Netflix streaming if you have it). It turns out there were something like 35 gospels floating around before the church decided to whittle it down to 4 and declare the rest heresy.
Comment by Jennifer R on November 17, 2010 at 8:39pm
There are plenty of books and documentaries refuting the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth. In fact...there may never have even been a Nazareth. Here is a website. http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

An interesting documentary on the subject I saw recently was The God Who Wasn't There.
Comment by Tony Davis on November 17, 2010 at 8:22pm
LOL are you guys talking about "The Life of Brian"? Great movie! I think my favorite part was when they went before Pontius Pilate and he had a speech impediment and said his "Rs" like "Ws", so he would up releasing "Bawabas".

On a more serious note, the idea of Jesus being a breed of people and folks recognizing him.... One thing I find very interesting is how nobody recognized him at first after his resurrection, even after walking some distance and talking to him, or sitting down to eat with him. And no good reason is given for this that I am aware of.
Comment by Susan Stanko on November 17, 2010 at 5:07pm
Didn't Monty Python do that?
Comment by Mark M on November 17, 2010 at 4:54pm
Ron Cole,

I, too, am of the opinion that the Jesus of the Bible was a real person. I think that he was one of the myriad self-proclaimed prophets roaming the region at the time, and he won the eternal notoriety lottery.
Comment by Mark M on November 17, 2010 at 4:51pm
*surprised, *interment
 

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