ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

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ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

We debate origins of the Universe, life, Earth, humans, religion, atheism, using common sense, evolution, cosmology, geology, archaeology, and other sciences, to repel biblical creationism and other religious beliefs.

Location: Oxford University, England
Members: 4195
Latest Activity: Aug 15

The portrait is Charles Darwin, age 31, in 1840

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Discussion Forum

Neanderthals, Denisovans and ancestor X

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Aug 7. 3 Replies

The evolution of work

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Joan Denoo Jul 12. 61 Replies

Has man evolved?

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by John Elder Jun 18. 5 Replies

The Probability Of Being

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by John Elder Jun 11. 4 Replies

Johns Hopkins Receives $125,000,000 to Fight Cancer

Started by John Jubinsky. Last reply by John Jubinsky Apr 1. 2 Replies

A new theory explaining the origins of life?

Started by Donald L. Engel. Last reply by Donald L. Engel Mar 31. 5 Replies

Map of Archaic Ancestry

Started by Qiana-Maieev. Last reply by Joseph P Mar 29. 5 Replies

Homo Erectus food processing

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Mar 19. 1 Reply

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Comment by Quinton Llewellyn on February 17, 2015 at 11:35am

I understand that they think their god is the cause of everything, but I had assumed that they mean "purpose" as in "goal". I'm not sure though what is meant by god being the goal or the meaning of everything means. Do you have any idea? If so can you explain it to me?

Comment by Plinius on February 17, 2015 at 9:42am

In the years in my fundie family's church I never came close to an answer. I guess that, since they believe that their god is the purpose and meaning of everything, they no longer have to make a personal purpose and meaning. Which means an empty life.

Comment by Quinton Llewellyn on February 17, 2015 at 9:37am

@JosephP

"Creationists are either dishonest as hell or grossly ignorant of what evolution actually is."

I expect most are just grossly ignorant of what evolution actually is and have too much invested in their ignorance to question it. I know however the Jehovah Witnesses have the Theocratic War Strategy, which essentially means if it will help them in an argument they should lie. The religious who knowingly lie will sometime justify it with the idea that if it saves a person from damnation it's for the greater good; this was the same justification I believe the Spanish Inquisition had for burning people alive - when morality is based on the well being of people's supposed afterlife instead their well being here and now, it is possible for anything to become permissible.

Comment by Quinton Llewellyn on February 17, 2015 at 8:55am

The religious talk about their religion giving them meaning or purpose, but does anyone actually know what they mean by that? What is the purpose or meaning to their life they think they gain specifically from their religion? Has anyone actually defined it?

Comment by Don on February 17, 2015 at 7:25am

You're exactly right, Joan.

From POLLY AND THE ONE AND ONLY WORLD (Green Writers Press, 2014):

     Leon leaned back on his elbows and tilted his face toward the sun.  Eyes closed, he said, “Here’s what bothers me.  If it’s all just stories, the Bible and the Quran and all those, and if there’s no heaven or angels or anything, and no god-given purpose to life . . . then what are we doing here?  I mean, I hate to think we’re just these random blobs of cells that sprang into existence for no reason at all."

     “But, Leon . . . ”  She swept her hand along the horizon, blue on blue.  "This is the reason.  Awareness.  And if you want purpose, well, we create our own purposes, each one of us, for ourselves."

     He stared out across the water.  "Then our lives don’t actually mean anything.”

     “Who says they’re supposed to?”

     “I know, but if our lives don’t mean anything, then . . .   Then people might as well be jellyfish.  Or seaweed."

     “That’s true.”

     “And some day we’re just going to go extinct, like the woolly mammoth and the stegosaurus.”

     “Some day the sun will swell up and consume the earth.  So?  We’re just specks, Leon.  Tiny specks in an ocean of space and time.”  
 
     He sighed.  “Mr. Olson says it’s ridiculous to think about humans going extinct, because we’re God’s chosen people, and when Jesus comes back, all the Christians will be raptured and taken up into the clouds."

     She shook her head.  "If anyone’s going to save us, Leon, it'll have to be us."

Comment by Joan Denoo on February 17, 2015 at 2:54am

I observe the struggles people have and the terrible ways people try to solve problems. I have to look up into the night sky, see all the stars and galaxies and know that if we are going to solve problems, we are going to have to do it ourselves. There is no power here or in heaven that will do it for us. We have to learn how to live together in justice and peace. 

Comment by Joseph P on February 17, 2015 at 2:14am

Sure, about time for most of the people on the site to be getting some sleep, anyway.  I'm just on an odd sleep schedule, lately.

Comment by Joan Denoo on February 17, 2015 at 2:08am

I know what you mean. It is beyond understanding how people refuse to learn, or even wonder how a monkey can give birth to a human. 

I'm chatting with a fellow from Hadhramaut on the Arabian Peninsula about a situation; we aren't quite finished. I want to read what you said, what the creationist said, and my response to him to see where I failed to catch the creationists. 

Will it be OK with you if we continue this tomorrow? If so, I will contact you or respond to your contacting me. 

Comment by Joseph P on February 17, 2015 at 1:44am

For example, I've heard many creationists say that if evolution was true, we would see monkeys giving birth to humans all the time.  It's mindnumbingly stupid crap that demonstrates that they don't have the understanding of the subject that I had in middle school ... literally, middle school.

Comment by Joseph P on February 17, 2015 at 1:41am

Well, I was just making a comment about Christian apologetics, in general, riffing off of that blog post.  You run into it in the arguments that many creationists make, such as the crocoduck, although that one goes in the opposite direction.

Creationists are either dishonest as hell or grossly ignorant of what evolution actually is.  They demand specific evidence of the variety that evolution specifically indicates can't happen and would disprove the theory.  Then, they take things that we've discovered because of our study into the theory of evolution, and they say it's a problem for evolution, despite it in actuality being support for evolution.

 

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