We debate origins of the Universe, life, Earth, humans, religion, atheism, using common sense, evolution, cosmology, geology, archaeology, and other sciences, to repel biblical creationism and other religious beliefs.

Location: Oxford University, England
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Latest Activity: Nov 17

The portrait is Charles Darwin, age 31, in 1840

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Discussion Forum

Neanderthals, Denisovans and ancestor X

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Aug 7. 3 Replies

The evolution of work

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Joan Denoo Jul 12. 61 Replies

Has man evolved?

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by John Elder Jun 18. 5 Replies

The Probability Of Being

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by John Elder Jun 11. 4 Replies

Johns Hopkins Receives $125,000,000 to Fight Cancer

Started by John Jubinsky. Last reply by John Jubinsky Apr 1. 2 Replies

A new theory explaining the origins of life?

Started by Donald L. Engel. Last reply by Donald L. Engel Mar 31. 5 Replies

Map of Archaic Ancestry

Started by Qiana-Maieev. Last reply by Joseph P Mar 29. 5 Replies

Homo Erectus food processing

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Mar 19. 1 Reply

Comment Wall


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Comment by Don on February 17, 2015 at 7:25am

You're exactly right, Joan.

From POLLY AND THE ONE AND ONLY WORLD (Green Writers Press, 2014):

     Leon leaned back on his elbows and tilted his face toward the sun.  Eyes closed, he said, “Here’s what bothers me.  If it’s all just stories, the Bible and the Quran and all those, and if there’s no heaven or angels or anything, and no god-given purpose to life . . . then what are we doing here?  I mean, I hate to think we’re just these random blobs of cells that sprang into existence for no reason at all."

     “But, Leon . . . ”  She swept her hand along the horizon, blue on blue.  "This is the reason.  Awareness.  And if you want purpose, well, we create our own purposes, each one of us, for ourselves."

     He stared out across the water.  "Then our lives don’t actually mean anything.”

     “Who says they’re supposed to?”

     “I know, but if our lives don’t mean anything, then . . .   Then people might as well be jellyfish.  Or seaweed."

     “That’s true.”

     “And some day we’re just going to go extinct, like the woolly mammoth and the stegosaurus.”

     “Some day the sun will swell up and consume the earth.  So?  We’re just specks, Leon.  Tiny specks in an ocean of space and time.”  
     He sighed.  “Mr. Olson says it’s ridiculous to think about humans going extinct, because we’re God’s chosen people, and when Jesus comes back, all the Christians will be raptured and taken up into the clouds."

     She shook her head.  "If anyone’s going to save us, Leon, it'll have to be us."

Comment by Joan Denoo on February 17, 2015 at 2:54am

I observe the struggles people have and the terrible ways people try to solve problems. I have to look up into the night sky, see all the stars and galaxies and know that if we are going to solve problems, we are going to have to do it ourselves. There is no power here or in heaven that will do it for us. We have to learn how to live together in justice and peace. 

Comment by Joseph P on February 17, 2015 at 2:14am

Sure, about time for most of the people on the site to be getting some sleep, anyway.  I'm just on an odd sleep schedule, lately.

Comment by Joan Denoo on February 17, 2015 at 2:08am

I know what you mean. It is beyond understanding how people refuse to learn, or even wonder how a monkey can give birth to a human. 

I'm chatting with a fellow from Hadhramaut on the Arabian Peninsula about a situation; we aren't quite finished. I want to read what you said, what the creationist said, and my response to him to see where I failed to catch the creationists. 

Will it be OK with you if we continue this tomorrow? If so, I will contact you or respond to your contacting me. 

Comment by Joseph P on February 17, 2015 at 1:44am

For example, I've heard many creationists say that if evolution was true, we would see monkeys giving birth to humans all the time.  It's mindnumbingly stupid crap that demonstrates that they don't have the understanding of the subject that I had in middle school ... literally, middle school.

Comment by Joseph P on February 17, 2015 at 1:41am

Well, I was just making a comment about Christian apologetics, in general, riffing off of that blog post.  You run into it in the arguments that many creationists make, such as the crocoduck, although that one goes in the opposite direction.

Creationists are either dishonest as hell or grossly ignorant of what evolution actually is.  They demand specific evidence of the variety that evolution specifically indicates can't happen and would disprove the theory.  Then, they take things that we've discovered because of our study into the theory of evolution, and they say it's a problem for evolution, despite it in actuality being support for evolution.

Comment by Joan Denoo on February 17, 2015 at 1:35am

Yes, that is the one I thought you were talking about. I haven't had a chance to re-read what he wrote 

Comment by Joseph P on February 17, 2015 at 1:03am

The one in which you spoke about creationists.  :-P  Thought it would be obvious.  Sorry.

Casey’s Latest Evidence: New World Monkeys

Posted on 16-February-2015

"The Discovery Institute is once again blogging about their “evidence” for the miraculous activities of their transcendent intelligent designer — blessed be he!— who is responsible for the existence of life, its diversity, and the whole universe."

Comment by Joan Denoo on February 17, 2015 at 12:56am

Joseph, you wrote "That's one of the many creationist tropes, Joan"

To which comment do you refer? I'm a sucker, gullible and get drawn in by tropes. Thanks for the heads-up. But which one?

Comment by Joan Denoo on February 16, 2015 at 4:27pm

Progress is not a zero-sum game a TED talk by Robert Wright. I listen to his debates or lectures or opinions and have mighty arguments with him in my head. Figuratively, he and I go round and round in disputes. 

This piece, however, I find not only uplifting, but encouraging. Probably because said what I have been thinking and he takes the long view. He doesn't discuss the Golden Age of Islam and the Dark Age of Christianity, which happened at the same time, he looks at existence in a cosmological perspective. 

The Apocolypse is coming through nature, not through Islam. Homo sapiens have so misused the Earth and its full-of-wonder gifts, that we altered the natural flows that kept this beautiful planet functioning for thousands of years. We have squandered her gifts to us and she is doing what any force of nature does ... for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. 

Newton’s Third Law of Motion

Are we doomed to extinction? Probably.  
If we change how we think and act are we doomed? Possibly. 

If all the peoples of the Earth understood the nature of the problems and that the causes are human activity, and if people, nations, governments and religions changed their perception to match reality, then there might be a chance to create a livable planet, not go back to the old planet, but a new way to live and participate on Earth. 


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