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The portrait is Charles Darwin, age 31, in 1840

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Comment by james boag on December 28, 2011 at 11:11am

Excellent comment, it so clearly cleans away all the clutter.

Comment by Joseph P on December 27, 2011 at 5:58pm

Sounds about right, now that I've skimmed his whole post.  Good lord, man.

We've already got a superior alternative to Christian morality.  Secular Humanism beats the nonsense in the Bible, easily.  If you want an alternative viewpoint on the subject, try Sam Harris's new book.

As for reaching your wife and daughter, who are still Christian?  Well, good luck with that.  Unless they're already of a skeptical mindset and are already questioning their faith, the best, likely result is frustration on your part.  More likely is your alienation of them.

Deconverting faith heads is best done in large groups.  You'll reach a few people, if you focus on hundreds or thousands.  If you pick out one or two people and focus on deconverting just them, you're almost certainly doomed to failure.  Deprogramming people from religion takes effort on their part, as well as yours.  If they're happy being religious, they'll have far too many emotional blocks up for them to be able to look at their religion rationally.

Your daughter sounds a bit too old for you to be able to influence her as a parent.  18 is just to old to train someone in critical thinking.  You have to start much younger than that.  She could pick it up later, sure, but she'd have to want it and meet you halfway.

Comment by Alice on December 27, 2011 at 4:37pm

Regarding the very long 'comment' below - it seems that this guy has been christian all his life - and heavily involved in the church - and now perhaps wishes to leave - but still has many of the indoctranations of the church.

Specifically he believes that we are all born beastly and unrefined and therefore need behavioural education - he feels very anxious that this is missing in the athiest world and therefore proposes a solution that we stop using money to fund 'religious' wars, and redirect that money to provide secular behavioural education.

To which I say - his premise is wrong - we are not born beastly; and atheist parents are quite capable of providing behavoural education to their children

This guy needs much help and support to overcome the indoctranation of the church.  Which he can find here or in the linked site Recovering from Religion.  By starting a disscussion called - "Please help me, I'm recovering from religious indoctranation and need to update my understanding of the world and how it works - especially regarding parenting." :)

Comment by Joseph P on December 27, 2011 at 2:30pm
But I LIKE train wrecks.
Comment by dr kellie on December 27, 2011 at 2:27pm

Agreed, Jim.  Don't waste your time, Joseph P.

Comment by Joseph P on December 27, 2011 at 9:50am
I've never seen a comment even half that long. Anything lengthy is generally put in the discussion threads. I haven't read it yet, myself. I'll check it out when I get back to the office.
Comment by Donny on December 27, 2011 at 9:45am

I kind of confused, as I am new to this site. Is what Charles posted the norm here? It's kind of long a somewhat fragmented, I'm not sure at all of the point being made. It seems to be singing the praises of religion. Mmmm maybe I'm just not bright enough to understand or care.

Comment by matthew greenberg on December 27, 2011 at 9:20am

sorry, you're right, but it's possible (probable?) that he needs some professional help. 

Comment by Leland Jory on December 27, 2011 at 9:19am

@Matthew Greenberg: You shouldn't feed the trolls.

Comment by matthew greenberg on December 27, 2011 at 9:11am

NO to everything Charles Defrates said. 


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