So as is appropriate, I am starting a discussion rather than posting comments. I was going to go back and look at the original comment that started all the controversy but it has mysteriously disappeared. I would be curious to know if the author is the one who deleted it. It seems to me that he was not treated with respect from the beginning.

Maybe it is unpopular, but I thought he made valid points. I believe the first was a question about why have biological children rather than adopt. The second was concerning respect for children and treating them like people rather than inferior people. I apologize if my summary is inaccurate as the original post disappeared.

My husband and I chose to have two children of our own rather than adopt. I admit that we made that decision for selfish reasons, but my justification is that we are just replacing ourselves. Which is weak, I admit. I would, however, be open to adoption should I want any more children or perhaps under the right unforeseen circumstances.

I think he made several other good points regarding parenting. I do agree that children can learn to control their emotional reactions. After all, how do adults learn it? Hopefully they begin learning it from their parents when they are toddlers.

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Replies to This Discussion

"i felt like it, so i did it" is not thinking.
i don't have anything to feel guilty about. i haven't wasted my life making the problems we face worse than they are. i do not allow my short-term pleasure to compromise my long-term well-being. what you're advocating is like saying "sex feels good now, why should i care if i get AIDS later?"

this is not a slippery slope argument. i'm not saying having that second scoop of ice cream will lead you to contribute to the overpopulation of the planet. you're advocating going straight to that final step, overpopulating the planet for fun. that's not a slippery slope, it's a cliff.

there is no time when i'm not being logical. i do not let fun compromise my well being. of course, you will choose to interpret this as meaning "i do not have fun", to make yourself feel better.

oh, but to me, having that second scoop of ice cream means he is going to gain weight and get diabetes and thus increase health care costs. Not to mention the impact of the carbon footprint of the ice cream and supporting unethical practices in the sugar cane industry.
There is no time when you are not being logical?? Aren't you using a computer/smart phone or some other device to type out all of your "logicalness"? Unless you are living in a house that is run completely on solar power and you have internet access from a company that doesn't pay for power then you are contributing to the downfall of this planet by consuming unsustainable natural resources. Oh wait, there is NO WAY to have internet access without making a negative impact on the planet. So the logical thing to do if the planet is so important is to STOP TYPING
your idea of logic would be living in a cave? how would that help anything? the aim is to have the maximum beneficial effect on the world with the minimum detriment. you can't have ANY beneficial effect if you won't use communication media.

cigarettes make me look cool now, why should i be concerned with my health later?

drinking alcohol all night makes me feel happy now, why should i be concerned with whether or not i survive the night?

eating a dozen burgers for every meal makes me feel good now, why should i be concerned with strokes that could be MONTHS down the road?


if you choose to live this way, your remaining few hours will be very pleasant. you'll make life worth living by ending it. but at least by doing the above things you'll only destroy yourself. you won't be creating centuries of suffering as well as the people who will experience it.



the PLANET is crowded with the children of HUMANS. unless this reduces to the point that the human population can start to DECREASE, we won't have a civilisation for very long. it is that simple.

this certainly helps with the overpopulation problem. Perhaps more people concerned with this problem should follow Hitchens and myself in the enjoyment of smokes, whiskey, and a tasty burger...early incineration and all!!

  Where is Felch Grogan when we need him, why has he forsakin us??

oh yes, i advocate increasing the lethality of legal drugs to the point that any person who starts smoking regularly, even in moderation, will not survive a decade. then we can at least have some semblance of the kind of selection process we are desperately lacking, to remove the idiots from the gene pool.
i don't even know where to start with you. you don't understand that you can select out memetic traits as well as genetic. you define humanity by self-harm.

i don't care about people who don't care about themselves. i didn't say "we" should kill them. i said they should kill themselves faster.


you are strongly overstating how much of personality is heritable. how do you explain siblings with vastly different personalities? how do you explain people who rewrite their personalities? self discipline trumps nature AND nurture




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