Comment

Comment by Patricia on November 15, 2019 at 1:28pm

As the saying goes....actions speak louder than words....

Comment by Plinius on November 15, 2019 at 7:04am

and it works!

Comment by Loren Miller on November 15, 2019 at 6:54am

Sound wisdom.

Comment by Loren Miller on November 14, 2019 at 5:32am

As democracy is perfected, the office [of president] represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move towards a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
-- H. L. Mencken

And on 20 January, 2017, that day arrived.

Comment by Joan Denoo on November 14, 2019 at 2:19am

I agree, there are many ways to experience community; bowling and bridge do not meet my needs, nor do coffee klatches.  The shared interest in gardening via the internet stimulates my imagination and increases my skills. No longer able to drive and lack of transportation prevents belonging to groups with meetings. I do participate in book clubs, discussion groups, and political action groups over the internet and they meet my need for community. 

As much as I am grateful and able to join in the action without leaving my forest sanctuary, I miss the days when I could hop in my car and take myself hither and yon.

Oh! Oh! I am getting the chance to see one of the effects of aging and loss of energy. I just can't do all the fun things that I once did; I can find new and satisfying ways to enjoy life, like tend to my greenhouse, keep the bird feeders full, and watch the woodpeckers, chickadees, finches, wrens, crows, and hawks. The deer entertain me as well. 

Of course, atheist nexus brings me a strong sense of belonging to a community. Each one of you has become dear friends. I am grateful!

Comment by Loren Miller on November 13, 2019 at 9:47am

Joan, we both know that churches and synagogues are NOT the only sources of community.  Fact is, WE have a community here, albeit a small one of the online variety.  I currently enjoy the community of various Cleveland secular organizations, including the Northern Ohio Freethought Society and the Cleveland Freethinkers, and I am not generally a very gregarious person.  Others may enjoy communities sharing interests as diverse as bowling or bridge.

Religion does NOT own that advantage, nor do I willingly cede it to them.

Comment by Loren Miller on November 13, 2019 at 7:52am

Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries.
-- Carl Sagan

In the long haul, superstition serves no one and nothing, other than perhaps those who fear reality, as Sagan suggests. Still, I submit that the only service superstition has to offer is random favorable happenstance, which I refuse to rely on.

Comment by Joan Denoo on November 12, 2019 at 12:17pm

Loren, I agree, in principle, with your assessment. However, there is one GREAT advantage religious people have over secular. It is the notion of belonging to a community, sharing values, correctly or erroneously, and taking action as a group. 

The thing I miss about not belong to a church is the weekly coffee time and discussion after the bible study and sermon. What I did not realize then was the error of sharing fallacies with others. We reinforced prejudices and faulty values. I had too many questions, too many doubts, too much resistance, i.e. I could not say the Apostles Creed.

Another factor that energized my resistance was, "I'll pray for you." Praying one's way through a problem proved to be useless, especially when dealing with family violence.  

The deeply held prejudices of control over women and children and the shared views about LGBTQ was another. 

The supremacy of christianity, yet another. Why go to another person or another country to convert the "Lost?"

My first question upon leaving the community was, "What value is a family if it is the source of fear and what attributes of a family leads to healthy individuals? 

Jeez, where do I find the answers to those questions? 

EDUCATION! I enrolled in college with a major in psychology and sought the answers to both questions. I discovered family violence is not the way to raise healthy children. Abuse is not discipline. 

It is snowing; a soft, gentle, beautiful snow.

Comment by Loren Miller on November 12, 2019 at 6:41am

As Peter Berger has noted, the strategy of apologizing for Christian faith by trying to demonstrate its social utility is always eventually self-liquidating. Sooner of later people realize that a great many of the supposedly practical and secular benefits of the Christian religion can be had more easily without religion...The logic of practical atheism may well be more deeply ingrained in the evangelical tradition than conservatives perhaps have realized.
-- Craig M. Gay

I've said it many times: there is precious little you can do WITH religion that you can't do WITHOUT religion ... and I would far rather do WITHOUT it.

Comment by Plinius on November 12, 2019 at 1:46am

About 1863, Joan, and there's far too much discrimination here. Many people hold on to a strange dream of white-skinned fair haired people working their farms among cows and tulips. It has never been like that, this was a trade country from Viking times on, which means that all sorts of people from everywhere were at home here. That is imo the best trait of the Netherlands, to talk and live with all those different people.

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