Reforming Counter-Apologetics


Reforming Counter-Apologetics

Dedicated to realizing the fundamental impulses that drive belief, and seeking secular parallels ~ creating a format for discussion that doesn't address apologetical arguments as much as it replaces the need for those arguments to begin with.

Members: 47
Latest Activity: Mar 7, 2014

Discussion Forum

Formulating a New Argument

Started by Park Bierbower. Last reply by Jedi Wanderer Jun 16, 2012. 11 Replies

I was listening to a podcast a few weeks ago, and they were covering the apologetical argument known as Pre-supposational Apologetics.  Its a clever argument, hard to refute if you're not already…Continue

Analytic thinking can decrease religious belief

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Steph S. Apr 27, 2012. 1 Reply

Analytic Thinking Can Decrease Religious Belief, Study ShowsJust using their "analytic" system of thinking…Continue

Impulse that drives belief -death anxiety?

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Apr 4, 2012. 1 Reply

New University of Otago research suggests that when non-religious people think about their own death they become more consciously skeptical about religion, but unconsciously grow more receptive to…Continue

Tags: fear of death

The Accursed Argument (from lack of proof)

Started by Jedi Wanderer. Last reply by Jedi Wanderer Jan 8, 2012. 13 Replies

All of us should by now be intimately familiar with this argument. It is the foundation of the arguments used by a religious friend of mine that I met on MySpace and have argued extensively on the…Continue

Comment Wall


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Comment by Jedi Wanderer on February 15, 2011 at 9:06am
I had thought of the exact same thing! We are just like domesticated apes. Like any other domesticated animal, our violent tendencies can be reduced but not eliminated, and we become more "institutionalized" as well so that we become dependent on the structure (self-)imposed on us. Were that structure to be removed, if only partially, we would be less adapted to cope with our new surroundings. But our structures also provide us with a terrific survival advantage. Surely this outweighs the downside, since by creating our own ecological niche we have a tool/weapon that other animals can't compete with. It makes us more competitive to be social and more able to cooperate with others of our species, but only up to a point. When we start pushing the limits of this strategy where the human species ruthlessly dominates all life on the planet rather than working symbiotically with it, and where we might end up undermining our very strategy, we need to start looking at alternatives.
Comment by Marc Draco on February 15, 2011 at 8:52am

Ah, eugenics!


Well, seems to me that we're not really that far advanced as to outbreed violence. The trouble is that violence is part of our survival mechanism and that not all people will try to remove it. In fact, if nature had its way, we would become more, not less violent since that is the way to ensure a fitter species survival.


Idiocracy comes to mind too.... stupid people breed more....

Comment by Jedi Wanderer on February 12, 2011 at 3:13pm
It looks like we have started making some real progress. Its getting to be a big project! Just wanted to share with the group two signs I saw outside of churrches recently. One was advertising that it was "a full Bible believing church", which I guess is code for preaching creationism. Its nice to know they have to speak in code and that they are worried about what happens when you only believe some parts of your dogma but not the parts which are falling out of favor. The other sign was "Yahoo! It Googles the mind what God has made!" Lol
Comment by Jedi Wanderer on February 11, 2011 at 3:24pm
@Tara: Oh, less-than-perfect spelling is no biggie. Sorry for not taking it easy on you. ;-) Your contributions to the group are valuable. And you spelled appalling right, that's not an easy word to spell. And I agree with you, I think I will go back to saying octopuses.
Comment by RejuvenArt on February 11, 2011 at 11:25am
I've been watching the breaking news as it has been unfolding! I am so excited for them! Congratulations is definitely in order for the Egyptian people!
Comment by RejuvenArt on February 11, 2011 at 11:21am
@wanderer: Ah I know my spelling is appalling :) I'll work on that!
Comment by Jedi Wanderer on February 11, 2011 at 11:18am
@ Tara: Well there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with your eyes! ;-)

@ Park: You sure you want a girl with such atrocious spelling? What exactly is a dog bread? Sounds delicious. Ahhh, I amuse myself.

@ All: Mubarak has stepped down! I just heard. A new Egypt begins today! Congratulations to the Egyptian people.
Comment by RejuvenArt on February 11, 2011 at 11:14am


Wtf? lol Of course I am smart! There is a spark shining from my superbly brilliant mind.. for I am born of stardust and don't deny my evolution. ;) (mensa-pensa bs, you're going down!) Hook up huh? hmmm... I don't know about you/it/brown ;)... hehe (how about after dinner tonight?)

p.s. wtf 'octopersons?' lol dork ;P


There will be more to come as we do our research and fatten our brains with knowledge, questions, experiences, and for me personally... lots of wondering + the application of multiple fields of study!

Comment by Joseph P on February 11, 2011 at 9:36am
Park, man, I don't think she's single.  :-P
Comment by RejuvenArt on February 11, 2011 at 8:36am

I'd kick her! No, I'm just kidding. She's our adorable "puppy" lol. I'm such a softy. Besides, she knows... the second you walk in and look at the torn up sofa (or even if you happen to look at her before the hellacious mess) she tucks her tail and cowers. She does not demonstrate those behaviors when she doesn't tear things apart upon our arrival, but is instead jumping up to lick our faces. So my mind always wanders... She knows what she has done is not something she is permitted to do without consequence... due to her cowering. So why does she do it in first place? She not realize the result of her destructive behavior has consequences until till she is in our presence? Does she remember the consequences at that point? Dogs 'remember' scents (perhaps scientists use a different word than 'remember' to describe the familiarity with their sense of scent). They can be in the presence of a person after several years of absence, and 'know' them, display more excited behaviors to see them than a stranger. I do not think they can apply any recollection of a consequence (if they have one) from a past behavior, when presented with a similar situation to behave differently. But then again, dogs trained for firefighting seem to be able to..? A system of rewards and discipline in combination of patience and repetition is used to train dogs, and train them well. Some are smarter than others, at least from bread to bread. I keep thinking the same thing when I read over a few of the recent discussions - Various animals and life forms, just like humans, seem to have varying ability as to whether or not they can apply a form of intelligence to their complex behaviors. Some may have a degree of intelligence and most may not have any, yet still perform complex behaviors. Through natural selection, those who have a degree of intelligence, such as the octopuses (octopi and/or octopodes - all three are correct boys - octopus comes from greek and then went then to latin - so it became a correct use of plural - but was not the original plural. Octopodes is used when refering to the classification plural - and is rarely used - as we dont often refer to a species by their classification except in scientific circles, and octopuses is the accepted and most commonly used plural in the English language, used in the US and UK - so I'll use octopuses) will be more successful at survival.. eventually bringing the evolution of that species to a higher cognative level and ability - but not every test subject would utilize those potential abilities. This seems to be the most likely scenario if one actually applies their knowledge of varying intelligent application. Some species have evolved furthar than others, with homo sapiens to be the most intelligent species we have experienced thus far.


(first post so be easy on me boys ;)


@wanderer - love your comment! It is astonishing, isn't it!? Those who fail to see how awe-inspiring such things are.. surely need new eyes ;)


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