I don't know if this will be looked at or not but I need to get it out of my head or I'll go crazy!

but three chapters need to be discussed for various reasons GEN 1 , Job 37 , and Revelations 11

I'm aware that most christians seem to simply ignore the fact that the sky or "heaven" its called in gen 1 is "hard as metal" and is the reason that the rain falls.  god would open the windows of heaven to let the water above fall upon the earth.  revelation 11 supports this claim by talking of the two witnesses which are 4 things that breathe fire from there mouths.  

ugg...its late and the wings lost again......and i can't think straight but i want to add that most bibles doesn't even translate the word Firmament anymore....they simply call it Sky...or heaven. hence why I supplied some KJV selections as they are consistent with the old language

wow I'm out of it...ok....

I'll reply to this later when I'm more coherent

Views: 282

Replies to This Discussion

So much in the bible that is either unscientitic, superstitious folk grappling to explain the world around them, and/or poetic imagery.

The more I delve into it the more it feels to me like more and more of the latter.

Especially with Genesis starting out with two differing-in-details creation stories. I wondered as a kid if that's the author's way of making sure we don't take it too literally.

But alas, so many Xians today argue that it's all literal. Ok then, when I ask you how you're able to fly through the floor of heaven (above the clouds), don't go telling me that clouds-as-god's-dusty-footprints is just poetic metaphor.

And if it is, that opens up any or all verses as poetic metaphor. Unless there's some answer-key/ teacher's-coppy supplement among the dead sea scrolls that we aren't aware of.
yeah i'm thinking thats the long of the short of it......its so.......interesting...that people as soon as you bring up a question, they go and pull somting out there ass as too what would be a reason....

My girlfriend for example....she dusted off the killing of that dude that couldn't knock up his sister-in-law, because it was an "order from god" ... ....

I wish most Christians would just freakin say i don't know
Correcting myself: So much in the bible that is either unscientific, superstitious folk grappling to explain

Wow - what was I on that day? Must ... proofread ...

Meanwhile, can not recommend it highly or often enough; "When They Severed Earth From Sky: How the Human Mind Shapes Myth. Very enjoyable read and explores myth from a wide variety of angles to answer a lot of the 'why' behind them.
thanks for the heads up....

I can't spell to save my life....

the only word I can spell most consistently... is Antitransmanificationdupandandurility
so don't worry about the spelling thing..

Well, the very occasional spelling error I can get away with. But if I dare to misuse an apostrophe, I'm fairly certain the ghost of my mother will return to whack me upside the head for it.

Mom was a real stickler for spelling and grammar, and I'm eternally grateful for it.
awesome!! I'm glad you had a good relationship with your mom!
Well, the relationship had its flaws, but there were indeed many upsides. Like Mom really pushing the importance of spelling/grammar as a key element in being taken seriously by others.

And how to spot when others are potentially full of shite.
I can't remember when I decided that "the formal rules of English can blow me," but it was a time when I fancied myself a poet. Therefor, the rules didn't apply to me. That's kinda the short version. As an afterthought, I think my spelling isn't so hot, because I memorize a LOT of stuff when I'm learning things....its just MORE to learn.

Re the "differing in details" creation stories:  Today's born again Christians are raised on the New International Version of the Bible, which first appeared in the 1950s as a production of the Southern Baptists.  It contains some slight changes in translation that make it possible, with some mental gymnastics, to argue that the creation story in Gen 2 is, as believers are taught, simply a more detailed explanation of the sixth day in Gen 1.  In other translations, God creates a man, then places him in the Garden, and then realizes that the man should not be alone, and then God "created" the animals, which alters the order of creation in Gen 1, creating a clear contradiction.  The NIV changes the tense, replacing "created" with "had created," indicating that God had made the animals before placing Adam in the Garden, so when God seems to create animals in Gen 2, he is really only summoning animals he previously created so Adam can proceed with the naming ceremony.  Voila!  Contradiction removed.

Altering Biblical texts to bring them in line with one's faith is as old as the texts themselves, so the NIV is part of a long tradition.  Unfortunately, the NIV is now the best selling Bible in the world.


Correction:  The committee of evangelicals that eventually developed the NIV was formed in the 1950s, but the work didn't actually begin until 1965, and the NIV wasn't published until the mid 1970s.  It is used very widely in Southern Baptist churches.


It suddenly dawned on me: Should astronauts be considered gods (for being able to break through the firmament) or simply evil scientists "playing god?"

And if it's the latter, why does god allow them to break through the firmament? Shitty security system?

In Gen 1,  the earth is "without form . . . and there [is] darkness over the face of the waters.  God creates a firmament to "separate the waters from the waters."  The Hebrew word usually translated as "firmament" or "vault" is derived from the verb "raqquiah" (spelling probably wrong), which means to "hammer out," as a craftsman might hammer out a bowl from a piece of metal.  It's clearly meant to be a solid dome, and the stars are "tiny lights" stuck on the inside of the dome.  The non-canonical "First Book of Enoch" gives a detailed description of a dome with six doors at its base in the east, and six more in the west.  The sun, it was believed, entered through the eastern doors, crossed the sky, and exited through the western doors, while the moon entered in the west and exited in the east.  There were six doors to account for the observation of the sun's apparent movement southward in winter.  Gen 1 describes the sun and the moon as "two great lights," but of course the moon is merely a reflector, with no light of its own.  Enoch is mentioned in the "begats" later in Genesis, so someone borrowed his name for this book.  Thus, "Enoch" is taken outside the dome by an angel, and observes that all is water (the "abyss" or underground sea which provides some of the water for the Great Flood and was considered the source of lakes, springs, seas, etc.)  This cosmological view was shared among Middle Eastern cultures for millennia before the beginning of the Common Era (1 AD or, as scholars say now, CE).  In Revelation, the stars are still believed to be small; some fall to earth and John, the narrator, says that he "walked past" a fallen star.  Of course, any "falling star" would vaporize the earth long before actually striking it.


It's all nonsense, but it was the best guess the ancient Hebrews could make, given the state of their knowledge and their non-scientific view of the world.  I have had students (Christians, of course) ask me how I could know "the universe wasn't really like that back then."  I generally look for the answer to that one in the bottom of a glass of Scotch.




Update Your Membership :



Nexus on Social Media:

© 2019   Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: The Nexus Group.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service