... but I'm getting really tired of talking to mothers. 


About a year ago one of my online friends was pregnant, and she was complaining about morning sickness, and then a few months later about her cravings and how the kid had started kicking her in the bladder and GOD wasn't it awful...


... so I had to ask: if it's so awful, why do women always talk about how amazing being pregnant is? 


Immediately she and another woman, who had just moments before been talking about how AWFUL her pregnancy was, said "Oh, but it IS amazing! It's the most wonderful thing ever!"


... o_0?


I listen to you complain about how wretched your pregnancy makes you feel, about what wretched little brats your kids are, and then... the moment I say 'this is why I don't want kids' you flip-flop and tell me it's the best thing in the world, it's so amazing and magical and it's such a miracle! Then they go on to say that it's a pity I don't want kids, I'd be a wonderful mother.


No, I would not. If I wanted a child, perhaps I might be a good mother. But I don't. I have too many ambitious plans for my career. If I had a child, I would have to put things on hold, take time off, spend a lot of money and time taking care of the child... and there would always be a bit of resentment. No matter how much I came to love the child I would always resent it, just a little bit, for all the things I had to give up for it. A child deserves a mother who is happy to give up anything for it. My child would not have that. I would not be a "great mother" just because... what? Because I'm a good teacher, or because I always go out of my way to help my friends? 


Then they tell me that the fact that I "worry" about being a good mother means I would probably be one. I'm not *worried* about it. I'm explaining. I don't think about it. It doesn't keep me up at night. 


The most irritating comes from my grandmother, and other older, "wiser" women, who tell me I'll change my mind when I'm older. I'm 26. Most of my friends either have babies or want them. Maybe there are a few years left before my "biological clock" start ticking, but... 


I have many, many years of school ahead of me. I took a rather circuitous route to where I'm at, and I've got four more years on my current degree at least, I don't know how many more for the PhD I plan to do, and then I'd want to get settled into my career before starting a family (if I wanted one, which I don't)... and that would put me well into my thirties. Sure, women can have children later in life. I was born when my mom was 32. So sure, maybe it would be possible. But I add up the years before I would even consider it, my ambitious plans and the time my career will likely take up, the fact that my boyfriend (who is the most likely candidate for a father) has plans at least as ambitious as mine, the amount of student loan debt we will both have, and the fact that neither of have any desire to have children (see the above comments about resentment) and I think, well, it makes sense for me to say no, I don't plan to have kids.


And then EVERY MOTHER I HAVE EVER TALKED TO ABOUT THIS smiles condescendingly and tells me "Well, you just wait and see." 


I don't judge you for having children. Please don't judge me for saying I don't want them.

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The misery loves company thing is HIGHLY true, especially the type of: She chooses to have the kid, has to give up travel and a career and stuff to take care of a brat that regularly breaks things, and then gets angry at every woman who gets an abortion or chooses not to have children and therefore is able to afford nice clothes, shoes, and still is able to have lots of free time on the weekends. She's bitter. She's not happy that you made a choice, and are happy with your choice. It's as simple as that.
Thanks for telling us your story. I've had some of those remarks said to me. I really like what you said here:
"I don't judge you for having children. Please don't judge me for saying I don't want them."

My mother nagged me for years to get married and give her some grandchildren.  She genuinely loved children. I told her that I knew by the time I was 15 that I didn't want to be a mother.  Ever.  I secretly didn't believe that I was sane enough to raise sane children.  I was also afraid I'd end up the way she did, with an alcoholic, unfaithful husband. 

Then, as I got older, and saw what my married girlfriends went through with their children, brattiness was the least of it, I was even more thankful that I knew myself that well before I got "trapped."  That's how I thought of it...a trap. I like men, a LOT, but almost every one I ever dated wanted kids, or was divorced and already had kids.  So I just gave up dating.

The very last time Mom nagged me about giving her some grandchildren, I was in my mid 40s, and I just went, "Ha-hah!  I'm in menopause!  YAYYYYY!"  And danced around the room.  (And I had none of the menopausal horrors I've heard about...none. I was happy about it.)

I'll be 72 next month, and have absolutely NO regrets, except maybe wishing I could have met an interesting man who also didn't want children.  Even some of my gay friends have wanted to be parents...before it became legally possible for them to adopt.

I don't judge you for having children. Please don't judge me for saying I don't want them.


Well, your post was full of judgments regarding parents, but I'm not seeing any example in your screed of a parent "judging" you for not having children.  Did I miss something?  Because someone saying that you have the qualities of a good parent is paying you a compliment, not judging you, and taking that as an insult is rather, well....rather sick.

So, it's okay to badger a person about having children because "they might change their mind"?  Or assuming that everybody wants kids isn't passing judgement?  Thinking you are better than the person who doesn't have kids isn't insulting?  Why are you even in a group dedicated to those who don't want children if you are going to belittle people for not wanting to have children.  Because, you are defending against some strawman that you have made up to make people who don't want kids as somehow evil.  Just like you do against Feminists.

There were no examples of "badgering" in the post.


No, assuming someone wants children is not passing judgement.  Its drawing a statistical conclusion, though perhaps rash.  It is in no way a "judgement" of their character for not wanting children.  In stark contrast to the judgements of people on this forum regarding the character of people who do want children.

You mean like you assuming that all Feminists are the same? 

I notice how you only hit on one point in my post.  What's wrong, will you break out in hives if you acknowledge that you might be wrong about something?  Of course, if you bothered to follow through on the implications of such an assumption you would see that the what is being complained about is that reaction to finding out out said assumption is wrong.

Quite honestly Susan, I don't respond to most of your posts because I consider you too stupid to be spending my time on.

You asked, so I answered.

I find hypocrisy just as prevalent in your own trolling posting career, Tbyte.

I don't mind when they say I'd be a good mother, though it baffles me. Why would you assume that was what annoyed me? (Aside from the obvious assumption that you were looking for something ridiculous to latch onto-- but that is an assumption I will not make, having never met you or seen you around. Do tell what your non-trollish reason for picking that one was.) Most of the behaviors I talked about here baffle me more than anything. And whether you read any judgments or not, I did not mean to belittle the choices they have made. If someone is genuinely happy with their kids, I may not understand it, but I certainly do not think any less of them for it. 


The single thing that will piss me off more than any other is condescension... and that's what "Well, you just wait and see" is. It says, in no uncertain terms, "I know you better than you know yourself, you're obviously wrong about what you want and who you are, but I am wiser and better than you are, so I'm just going to smile, smug, content in the knowledge that I will be proven right in the end." If that's not judging, then, by all means, tell me what it is. 

I'll grant you the condescension, but of course that is in no way a trait peculiar to parents.  In fact, it is not nearly as condescending as the continual references to parents as "breeders" on this forum.


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