Climate Concerns

The "CLIMATE CONCERNS" group is dedicated to discussion regarding the topic of the ever present and serious issue of changes to our climate due to the introduction into the atmosphere of human induced effects which prove harmful to the environment and which eventually may prove destructive to our planet. 

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Comment by Joan Denoo on December 28, 2015 at 4:47pm

"Over the last 800,000 years atmospheric CO2 levels as indicated by the ice-core data have fluctuated between 170 and 300 parts per million by volume (ppmv), corresponding with conditions of glacial and interglacial periods. The Vostok core indicates very similar trends. Prior to about 450,000 years before present time (BP) atmospheric CO2 levels were always at or below 260 ppmv and reached lowest values, approaching 170 ppmv, between 660,000 and 670,000 years ago. The highest pre-industrial value recorded in 800,000 years of ice-core record was 298.6 ppmv, in the Vostok core, around 330,000 years ago. Atmospheric CO2 levels have increased markedly in industrial times; measurements in year 2010 at Cape Grim Tasmania and the South Pole both indicated values of 386 ppmv, and are currently increasing at about 2 ppmv/year.

You wrote

"Why is it our fault the earth is warming, when it was warmer than this before we started burning all these fossil fuels?"

Comment by Alan Perlman on December 26, 2015 at 7:55pm

Let's hear all sides!  Seldom has science been so intertwined with politics!  I remember a 1970s Newsweek (RIP) cover about a coming Ice Age.  Can't we have the additional CO2 without catastrophic consequences?

Comment by Donald L. Engel on December 26, 2015 at 6:26pm
I've shown a chart of the Vostok Ice Core somewhere on A/N that shows we are still not as warm as the previous four warming periods. I've shown a map of Glacier Bay showing the retreating glacier in that bay, and we don't know how big it was before we discovered it. We still aren't as warm as it was during the Medieval Warming Period. The Vikings were growing grapes in Greenland before the Little Ice Age, and they still can't do that now. Why is it our fault the earth is warming, when it was warmer than this before we started burning all these fossil fuels. The plants love it, and CO2 does not harm humans until it gets in the 8700PPM range. And....warming precedes a rise in CO2. It doesn't work the other way around. The oceans were warming long before the Industrial Revolution. This warming forced the oceans to release CO2. That, along with us burning fossil fuels has led to a raise in CO2 levels. But you can't say that this rise is causing the rise in temperatures, because The temperature was rising before all the halabaloo.
All of the factories in the world were working 24/7 during the war. Almost all of the power was from coal and oil. All of the planes and ships were burning aviation gas, and the temperature started falling. The average temp fell for 35 years, and the organiations that are now crying catastrophe from heat, were crying The Ice Age Is Coming!!!"
The CO2 measuring station started in 1952. It shows the CO2 rising steadily, and a temperature chart shows the temp dropping just as steadily until about 1976.
Gore's hockey stick chart was adopted by the IPCC, and put into their report. As soon as a few real scientists started showing the discrepancies in that chart, it was taken out of the report. If those scientists are so good at their work, why did they incorportate that chart to start with? Why did so many real scientists ask that their names be taken off the report because it didn't show what they had submitted?
Comment by Alan Perlman on December 26, 2015 at 3:16pm

I know, we're talking about a population in which large majorities believe in God, heaven, hell, and angels.  What do facts matter if men rode dinosaurs?  Evolution is just a theory, right?  So the climate scientists could just as well be wrong.

Comment by Bertold Brautigan on December 26, 2015 at 2:43pm

>I just don't get why people deny it.

Because the same highly paid whores who discredited research on the harm done by tobacco and stifled research on gun violence have just cut to the chase and discredited science itself in the minds of the gullible.

Comment by Alan Perlman on December 26, 2015 at 2:39pm

The basic CO2 process is Chem. 101.  Everything Joan says is poised to happen, barring an unprecedented effort by humanity (ain't gonna happen).  I just don't get why people deny it.

Comment by Joan Denoo on December 26, 2015 at 2:24pm

Because human activity raises the amount if CO2 at faster rates than nature can absorb, causing greenhouse gases, causing glacial melt, causing warming and changes in the chemistry of the oceans, and creating flooding conditions on low-lying ground, causing disasters for shoreline occupants, and creating extinctions for many birds, mammals and fish that depend on present conditions.

The Earth will adjust and so can Homo sapiens, at great cost and suffering. There will be a mass of humans moving to higher ground and refugees needing shelter, food, and social services. 

Comment by Donald L. Engel on December 26, 2015 at 1:16pm

Since we are near the end of a cyclic warming period, and we still aren't as warm as the last four, why is it man's fault this time?

Just asking.

Comment by Alan Perlman on December 26, 2015 at 11:38am

I have to admit, I'm enjoying the mild winter, riding m bike on Xmas day -- but longer-term, it's nothing to be hapoy about.

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on December 26, 2015 at 11:18am

Alan, we're supposed to be entering an ice age but climate change has been pushing toward heat instead.


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