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Climate Concerns

The "CLIMATE CONCERNS" group is dedicated to discussion regarding the topic of the ever present and serious issue of changes to our climate due to the introduction into the atmosphere of human induced effects which prove harmful to the environment and which eventually may prove destructive to our planet. 

Members: 55
Latest Activity: Oct 3

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Odd results of Climate Change

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Oct 3. 73 Replies

Take an amusing quiz to learn about unexpected effects of Climate Change. After each multiple choice question, you see if you were right (and the right answer if you weren't).…Continue

Tags: odd effects of Climate Change

Temperature Anomaly Chart

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Plinius Aug 8. 1 Reply

From Climate Central, Temperature anomalies arranged by country from 1900 - 2016:Continue

Tags: Temperature Anomalies by Country

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Comment by Joan Denoo on June 21, 2016 at 9:40pm

Čenek Sekavec

I agree, it is irrelevant if humans cause climate change. What is at stake is that we understand climate change occurs, that humans play a part, if not all of the cause, and we need to take heed. 

Comment by Joan Denoo on June 21, 2016 at 9:32pm

I do not advocate thought police, or criminalising unpopular ideas, or silencing dissenters. 

My point is that the KKK, the Aryan Nation, the fight to get control over DDT, the acknowledgement of the Ozone hole, corralling of tobacco smoke, the recognition of acid rain did not come about because people denied others' rights to free speech. These sorts of attitudes and behaviors faltered in the face of consequences of actions. 

The KKK lost the largest judgment ever awarded against a hate group, when a jury in S.C. in 1998, ordered the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, its state leader, and four other Klansmen to pay $37.8 million for their roles in a conspiracy to burn a black church. 

The Aryan Nation In September 2000, were brought down by the Southern Poverty Law Center when the Center won a $6.3 million judgment against Aryan Nations from an Idaho jury who awarded punitive and compensatory damages to plaintiffs who had been beaten with rifles by Aryan Nations security guards in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho in 1998.

The tobacco industry held power because of vast spending on political campaigns and effective lobbyists. They held power because they fought each lawsuit and refused to settle out of court. They relied on several defense strategies, including, 1. Tobacco was not harmful to smokers; 2. Smokers' cancer was caused by other factors; 3) Smokers assumed the risk of cancer when they decided to smoke. The tobacco industry began to lose power when, in a landmark case the plaintiff and her family alleged that cigarette manufacturers knew, but did not warn consumers, that smoking caused lung cancer and that cigarettes were addictive. Other plaintiffs sued, claiming that tobacco companies knew cigarettes were addictive and caused cancer. 

I could go on, but I think I should be making my point. We don't have to resort to freedom of speech or action. We can argue that climate change is occurring and the changes occur, partially, because of human action. We have to show that pollution and climate harm people and business. We need to reveal how fossil fuels contribute to pollution. 

I again refer you to Merchants of Doubt

Mine is not a freedom of speech argument. My point is that with all the caterwauling about whether humans do vs humans do not cause climate change, burning fossil fuels pollute the air and water and fracking pollutes groundwater. 

If coal, oil, and gas pollute the air, soils, and water, then it is time for development of other means of energy.  The fossil fuels industries can argue freedom of speech all they want. 

I am willing to wager that China will develop alternative means of energy than the USA. 

OK, dear friends, show me where I am wrong in my assessment!

Comment by Čenek Sekavec on June 21, 2016 at 7:48pm

I should clarify that I'm not saying humans don't cause climate change. Merely that it is irrelevant if we do.

Comment by Čenek Sekavec on June 21, 2016 at 7:47pm

Humanity has gone through three extinction events prior to the industrial era. 

Over the course of the entire history of the earth extinction events are so common their names get very similar.  99% of all species that have ever lived are extinct, many due to climate change. 

It's stupid and anti human to believe that "our" climate change is any different. We should be studying how to adapt. Using our resources to stop change, irregardless of the source or type, is a lost fight. And a pointless expense of finite resources.

Change is the thing that has made human life possible on earth and is the guarantor of our continued dominance as a species.  

Humanity isn't dependent on environment to survive. It is dependent on thought. 

Comment by Čenek Sekavec on June 21, 2016 at 7:35pm

That is just a double down on the same stuff I mentioned before. Again, those are papers, not scientists. And a misattribution of anthropogenically neutral papers as being pro-anthropogenic.

Comment by Donald L. Engel on June 21, 2016 at 7:22pm

Ruth, how do you propose that we stop a natural climate change cycle that has been going on for at least 420,000 years?

Comment by Grinning Cat on June 21, 2016 at 7:12pm

The "97% of climate scientists" figure is actually wrong.

The truth is virtual unanimity.

Out of 24,210 climate science and global warming articles published in 2013-2014, James Lawrence Powell in his new analysis found that only five rejected anthropogenic global warming. Out of those, only one was cited by another author, and that one, only once.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/01/14/do-97-of-sc...

http://jamespowell.org/methodology/newmethodology.html

Comment by Čenek Sekavec on June 21, 2016 at 7:03pm

Re: Call out the climate change deniers

For shame!  Not acknowledging climate change as anthropogenic is not the same as denying existence.   This is a question of attribution not fact. It's cheap rhetoric to poison the well.

Re: "What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?"

There is a hidden cost. It's not 'for nothing' 

Re: "97% of climate scientists agree..."

Consensus isn't a methodology to find truth... 

Yes ~98% of published papers from selected journals agree. Not the same, as one scientist published dozens of papers, et cet. Also it excludes dissenting opinion due to cherry picking which papers to analyse. Also it is a matter of policy to refuse research funding if the study will oppose UN climate policy. 

 

Comment by Grinning Cat on June 21, 2016 at 3:12pm

Daniel, I don't get tired of reposting this:

At a climate summit, a speaker is addressing points on a board behind him: energy independence, preserve rainforests, sustainability, green jobs, livable cities, renewables, clean water and air, healthy children, etc., etc. A heckler at the back of the audience asks, “What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?”(click to enlarge)

Comment by Daniel W on June 21, 2016 at 2:45pm
On Atty Gen Lynch and investigating climate change deniers - While I think the evidence for anthropogenic climate change is strong, and the scientists are reliable, somehow howing after climate change deniers sounds like thought crime. Maybe there was something that I missed. It does not seem like something that should be considered in a society where there is free exchange of ideas.

Say, for the sake of argument, that climate change is due to vast planetary and solar causes, not anthropogenic. Are there benefits to reducing the squandering of fossil fuels, working on reforestation, and preserving ecosystems that climate changes destroy, separate from the reduction of CO2, fluorocarbons, and methane in the air? Even without climate change, is it good to regard the atmosphere and oceans as waste dumps? If we build on renewable energy, wind, solar, and reduce energy consumption, aren't we helping to nurture subsequent generations, regardeless of how much of climate change is anthropogenic? Or is it just, we take ours, and screw the people who follow?
 

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