Climate Concerns

The "CLIMATE CONCERNS" group is dedicated to discussion regarding the topic of the ever present and serious issue of changes to our climate due to the introduction into the atmosphere of human induced effects which prove harmful to the environment and which eventually may prove destructive to our planet. 

Members: 51
Latest Activity: Jan 3

Reference/Research Sites

Discussion Forum

How Woody Guthrie can help us fight for science

Started by Joan Denoo Jan 3. 0 Replies

Oklahoma, the home of protest singer Woody Guthrie, provides an example of resistance in the 1930s class and culture wars between rural and urban values. If Woody could use his voice to speak up, so…Continue

Tags: method, Permaculture, soil, voices, farming

Framing Climate Destabilization

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Bertold Brautigan Dec 9, 2016. 22 Replies

The words we use and the images they evoke shape public comprehension of Catastrophic Climate Destabilization's immanence. Here are a few terms from the past few days. It's a tiny…Continue

Tags: communicating climate science, Climate Destabilization, framing

Jet Stream Mayhem begins Tues

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Dec 3, 2016. 3 Replies

Siberian air…Continue

Tags: jet stream waves

Comment Wall


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Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on March 15, 2016 at 2:17pm

Compare 2016 so far with previous years global averages.

Comment by Čenek Sekavec on March 15, 2016 at 12:51am

Yes Ruth we're in a low. But as always the question is: compared to what? Nearly all the data on solar output in one graph

There are short and long cycles in every natural process we've observed from earthquakes, volcanism, carbon release, carbon reuptake, ice formation, ice loss, and solar output. 

In terms of the long cycle of solar output, we're up, way up. And we've been up for a long time. Heat can be cumulative if the input exceeds output. Long established fact that the solar input max is 1380 W/m^2 with the mean being 340 W/m^2

What is the output of the earth? Let's look at spectra. Earth vs sun. The earth reradiates primarily at 11µm (keep firmly in mind it is on a log scale). Now look at the (non-logarithmic) absorption spectra for co2

That's right:  Zero. 

For those who might not be following the science, this means that the idea of energy from the sun being 'trapped' on earth by co2 is ridiculous. Yes, some is. But clouds are many orders of magnitude more influential than co2. Are we banning clouds? 

Having done the work, I stopped worrying and just enjoy my bigger veggies.

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on March 14, 2016 at 3:10pm

Here's the reference for that 6 year old quote.

Climate Change: The 40 Year Delay Between Cause and Effect

Sorry I forgot.

Comment by Joan Denoo on March 14, 2016 at 3:04pm

Ruth, thanks for the information. 

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on March 14, 2016 at 3:03pm

Donald, let me amend that. Six years ago it was thought...

...there is significant variation in estimates of climate. A paper by James Hansen and others [iii] estimates the time required for 60% of global warming to take place in response to increased emissions to be in the range of 25 to 50 years. The mid-point of this is 37.5 which I have rounded to 40 years.

You still see recent secondary sources that mention a 30 year delay, but I think that's outdated information.

That claim of an 800 year delay between CO2 increase and temperature rise is a misunderstanding of ice core data from when ice ages ended. The full explanation is here.

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on March 14, 2016 at 2:34pm

Donald, it's true that CO2 influences temperature for 100,000 years, but the maximum effect isn't in 800 years. Maximum warming occurs about one decade after a carbon dioxide emission.

Maximum warming occurs about one decade after a carbon dioxide emis...

Comment by Donald L. Engel on March 14, 2016 at 1:14pm

Ruth, the CO2 levels do not follow the temperature day by day,  month by month, or even year by  year.  An increase in CO2 is the result of an increase in temperature 800 years ago  That's right, eight hundred years ago.

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on March 14, 2016 at 12:42pm

Donald, building underground houses is likely to be a future trend.

Actually, Čenek, we're in a low solar output cycle right now. Nobody attributes the unprecedented rise in CO2 in 2015 to solar output, unless you're looking at a denier site.

image source

Stefan Rahmstorf, from Germany's Potsdam Institute of Climate Impact Research says, "We are in a kind of climate emergency now." The previous worst February increase after a Super El Nino was 0.47°C rise above that month's global average compared to 1951-1980. When the final numbers were in, February was a 1.35°C rise. So even though one expects a warmer February coming off of an El Nino, this time was way off the charts. NASA Drops Major Bomb in 'March Toward Ever-Warmer Planet'

Comment by Čenek Sekavec on March 9, 2016 at 1:13am

Increased solar output releases carbon gasses that were trapped in permafrost, ice, et al.  Though undesirable the gasses aren't the cause. When the sun begins it's cooling cycle the gasses will get pulled out of the air again by biological processes.  

Don you are spot on. Even though we humans think we have influence on the earth we haven't even matched the lowly trilobite when it comes to altering the climate and structure of the planet. And other natural processes dwarf both us and our trilobite primogeniture.

Comment by Donald L. Engel on March 4, 2016 at 12:52pm

Each of the vertical lines on the chart below represents 10,000 years,

And Ruth, it doesn't matter if it is safe for us or not.  The earth doesn't care about us.  We're going to have to do whatever it takes to survive.  If I were a young man right now, I would build a house underground, where it would be a little cooler.


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