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The confusion comes from the fact that people like Bruce think they can come to a feminist group and engage in an anti-feminist manner. That's called trolling.
Atheist Nexus doesn't allow god-botherers to join for the good reason that it's a place for atheists to discuss atheist issues without having to constantly justify themselves to outsiders. Similarly a feminist group within Atheist Nexus should be for feminists to discuss feminist issues without outsiders constantly attacking them and the very concept of feminism.
Bruce has identified himself as an equalist rather than a feminist. Maybe the equalists should form an equalist group where they can get together and discuss the post-patriarchal, post-race world they all believe we are living in. Bruce is simply not on the same page as any feminist here so unless he is here purely for trolling there is little point to his continuing to post here.
I'm not defining anything, just offering an opinion on that and the general source of confusion.
And I've heard a lot of twisted definitions of things that you would think are far simpler than feminism. Without a working definition set within a group, you're subject to a great deal of interpretation, not the least of which is whether this is a group for just feminists or a group to talk about feminism. So many hairs to split; so little time.
That aside, I don't agree with a lot of Bruce's views, but when he's got a point, he's got a point. The whole thing started because Asharu's argument in the one thread is ... flawed. When I think Bruce has a valid point, I support him in that. When I think he's full of it or is taking something too far ... I don't.
Just like when theists talk about Isaac Newton, trying to lay claim to science and mathematics, because he happened to be religious. Yes, Newton believed in a lot of silly shit, in addition to his brilliant contributions to science and reason. You have to differentiate between the message and the messenger.
It's not up to men to define what is or isn't patriarchal. Just like it's not up to white people to define what is or isn't racist. As women the topics discussed here aren't some abstract concept. We live through feminist issues each day, with these issues impacting us directly, and so we're capable of recognising patriarchy when we see it.
I honestly cannot think of any bizarro-land definition of feminism that would define Bruce's opinions as feminist.
I didn't mean Oryx was in the newest thread, just the debate in general, which has the activity here higher than it has been for months.
I don't really see Bruce as being patriarchal. What's he's pushing is termed 4th wave Feminism, by some. I don't particularly buy that, but it introduces a level of confusion when you're trying to define what a group is about. If you don't specify to the point of being ridiculous, it allows for his worldview as well. We're running into big-tent issues there, again.
I have and I did in the latest discussion thread, Joseph. At the time of my last posts Oryx hadn't joined that debate.
The question remains as to why we have to argue with non-feminists here at all. Atheist Nexus won't allow god-botherers to join because the purpose of the site if for atheists to discuss atheist issues. Similarly one would expect a feminist group to be for feminists to discuss feminist issues. If I want piles of irritating patriarchal garbage I have the rest of the Internet and the analogue world for that.
Then make the arguments and disprove him. Oryx was the only one fighting back, and he sucks at it. Don't hide behind admin controls. Just beat him, if it's so easily done.
Have I been promoted to "troll suppporter" or are you accusing someone else?
And really how can someone have power over you in an online forum??!! Are we women SO fucking defenseless we need protection from WORDS now?? Sorry, I'm just NOT that much of a victim. I've been raped twice and had a guy try to kill me once, not to mention countless beatings over my life. I'll be damned if I'm going to whine over some guy in a fucking forum having power over me by TALKING. You girls have fun, I'm going to go find some adult women to chat with.
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