Politics, Economics, and Religion

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Politics, Economics, and Religion

Religion has so many connections to political and economic beliefs, there needs to be a place to identify linkages, problems, goals, options, action plans and evaluation criteria.  

Members: 137
Latest Activity: 6 hours ago

What is the purpose of life?

An eternal question, what is the purpose of life?, occupied philosophers’ thoughts throughout history. Stone pictographs reveal even primitive peoples reflected on this query. Each one has the capacity to define his or her personal thinking about politics, economics and religion.

Discussion Forum

'Trump's Katrina?' No, it's much worse (Juliette Kayyem - CNN)

Started by Loren Miller. Last reply by Joan Denoo Oct 2. 5 Replies

It is a difficult task to turn the memory of Hurricane Katrina into a quaint story of well-meaning government actors unable to save a city from destruction. President Donald Trump managed to do that on Saturday morning when he essentially blamed…Continue

Tags: Juliette Kayyem, CNN, tragedy, Puerto Rico, Donald Trump

Trump, America's First White President

Started by Grinning Cat. Last reply by Grinning Cat Sep 30. 1 Reply

[reposting from the group "Conversations on Race, Ethnicity, and Culture", which will be was cleared and closed October 1.]Trump, America's first white presidentSo writes…Continue

Tags: race, racism, systemic racism, endemic racism, class

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Comment by Daniel W on December 18, 2016 at 11:27am

Joseph, I agree with you 100% that a place is needed for venting and safe discussion among like minded people.  I apologize for my strong wording.

Kathy, I think a ow information voter can perceive that they are being demeaned.  I am guilty of doing that online in places such as this.  They won't be reading here, but they are well aware of what their pundits tell them.

Tom, you make some really good points.  First, that changes of leadership renew organizations, as well as the unreported benefit that they probably renew the people being replaced, who then need to adapt and grow and learn new things.  It's hard, but stagnation is bad too.

Tom, your other point about the Berni Sanders movement is well taken.  I don't disagree with that at all.  I thought Clinton had a better chance in the general election, and maybe I was wrong.  We'll never know.  Is it possible that he too, has been in politics too long, and that fresher leaders are needed? 

I continue to assert that a revolt of yellow dog Democrats is needed, not just the young but the old, and not just the coasts and liberal strongholds, but the rust belt and corn belt and agricultural belt of the Southeast, and blue collar everywhere.  We need balance of powers, not elites who as Tom states abandon their base.  The Democrat party should have a big tent, not just politically correct and blue state.  Where does the rubber hit the road?  Details, the devil is in the details.

Comment by Joseph P on December 18, 2016 at 1:24am

That's like me in a voice-mail, Joan.  I hear the beep, and I just freaking lose it.  By the time I reach about 30 or 45 seconds in, I forget what I said during the first 15 or 20 seconds, and then I just ramble all over the place, trying to cover things that I probably already covered.

Comment by kathy: ky on December 18, 2016 at 1:04am
Can a low information voter be insulted? I mean wouldn't the have to know enough to know an insult. Lol
Comment by tom sarbeck on December 18, 2016 at 12:59am
A US senator once told an environmental group I was active with that after about six years a reform group needs reform.
The reason was that as a group's leaders gain skills they separate themselves from the other members and become an elite.
Don't be discouraged by that; simply accept it as a reality of politics.
Comment by Joan Denoo on December 18, 2016 at 12:39am

Please forgive my double sentences and paragraphs. I vow to be more careful in future posts. 

Comment by tom sarbeck on December 18, 2016 at 12:18am
Daniel, I appreciate the effort your Problem-Solution post below required. I was hyper-active in the 1970s and 1980s (less active since then) and saw the elites of both parties abandon their base.
IMO the Repubs exploited their based more cruelly than the Dems did, and when the rebellion came Trump was far more the demagogue than Sanders was.
How does your voter-led revolt differ from the revolt Bernie Sanders led?
Comment by Joan Denoo on December 18, 2016 at 12:12am

Daniel, Joseph P., and Ruth, I very much like the tone of this discussion. Yes, it is time to listen to the wage-worker, the small business person, and to those who pay taxes while seeing the One Percenters take advantage of our tax system. Yes, it is time to start a tax-paying, voting person revolt against the tyranny of corruption in our governments. 

Yes, it is time to listen to the wage-worker, the small business person, and to those who pay taxes while seeing the One Percenters take advantage of our tax system. Yes, it is time to start a tax-paying, voting person revolt against the tyranny of corruption in our governments. 

Yes, it is time to start a tax-paying, voting person revolt against the tyranny of corruption in our governments. 

Yes, it is time to confront people who make uninformed statements and challenge those who spread false news. A face-palm button is in order to facilitate this action. 

Yes, ridicule is a valid response to some individuals and groups, as is to react, reply, rejoin, challenge, inform, explain, question, retort, inspire, advise, describe, doubt, counter, discuss, and to respond with cynicism, pessimism, and skepticism.

I expect and welcome and respect those who respond to my writings with cynicism, pessimism, and skepticism. The old CPS responses. 

 

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on December 17, 2016 at 11:24pm

I see low information voters as having been invisibly shaped by the algorithms in their communication media. See Oliver Luckett's short video in this discussion. It's not just lack of information, willful ignorance, or being tricked by astroturfing and fake news. We are all manipulated in sophisticated ways to which we are blind. Atheist Nexus is a safe haven from this silo effect in one sense, but we're also a self-selected information bubble too. I ordered his book. Will know more after I've read it.

Comment by Joseph P on December 17, 2016 at 11:01pm

Well yeah, of course this site is an echo chamber, in respect to the vast majority of issues.  This is a safe place for ridicule, when we need to vent steam, sort of like what we do over in Atheist Humor.

In person or in whatever sort of personal interaction, I generally go for an attempt at education.  It's the same as when a young-Earth creationist comes out with an amazingly ignorant and idiotic question that they think is a brilliant zinger, such as, "If humans came from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys?"

My response ... after the face-palm ... is usually something like, "It's not monkeys; it's apes.  And we are apes, and there are many species of ape.  Now, would you like a crash-course on how speciation works, so you can learn why what you just said is so silly, or am I wasting my time?"

A political discussion, with someone who said something similarly silly within the political realm, would probably follow similar lines.

Ridicule is only a last resort and is only useful if there are watchers who are on the fence.

Comment by Daniel W on December 17, 2016 at 10:48pm

Problem:  Low information voters determine election in unfavorable manner.

Solution:

(a) demean them.  ridicule them.  judge them.  then they will voter better next time.

(b) give money to democrats so they can use the money to make more calls to collect more money so they can use the money to make more calls to collect more money so...

(c) talk about them in internet echo chambers where hello... hello... hello... hello.... we are so much better than they are.

(d) Strategize how to turn them into high information voters and then implement strategy.  Understand the voters needs and address their needs, don't just manipulate them and market to them.  Really listen.  Then come up with plans, and act.

Please don't feel that I'm trying to be offensive.  I'm not at all.  I actually felt your pain before the election was over, because I really worried it would go the way it did. The polls just felt too...  I don't know, maybe smug.  All eggs in one basket.  I don't mean to cause offense, at all, and I feel the same disappointment and fear that everyone feels.  But that's not enough.  It's time for the ranks of loyal yellow dog democrats, myself included, to revolt.  The Democrats have to listen to their natural base, the working people across the country who are hurting.  That's all races, sexes, sexual orientations, eye colors, piercing status, and number of tattoos.  Democrats need to stop talking down to their voters and start listening to them.  Stop being elitist and return to being real people of the people, and for the people.

I'm really thinking it's time to start a voter led revolt like what happened in the Republican Party.  Can't call it Tea Party - no no no no no no.  I don't have a name.  Yellow Dog Democrats United YDDU or something.  We need to start a Facebook group, use social media to organize, tell the Democrat party, we will not support you, not give you money - where did that get them this time? - not be polite to their rude telephone propagandists and solicitors an guilt mongers, but tell them to do their fucking job.  No more political dynasties, no to HIllary, no to Chelsea, no to Kennedies, yes to people who work hard for their voters and fight for them.

I was called today by a Democratic phone pool, and the guy did the usual start rude, immediately interrupt with fast talking, baiting tactic "Trump is going to...." and I talked over him, and said basically the same thing.  Stop scaring up money from loyal supporters - where did that get you last time?  Start listening to the Democratic base, the working people, the farmers, the people across the country who are hurting, stop manipulating people...  he hung up. 

 
 
 

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