Politics, Economics, and Religion

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Politics, Economics, and Religion

Religion has so many connections to political and economic beliefs, there needs to be a place to identify linkages, problems, goals, options, action plans and evaluation criteria.  

Members: 137
Latest Activity: 20 hours ago

What is the purpose of life?

An eternal question, what is the purpose of life?, occupied philosophers’ thoughts throughout history. Stone pictographs reveal even primitive peoples reflected on this query. Each one has the capacity to define his or her personal thinking about politics, economics and religion.

Discussion Forum

The Satanic Panic - The Witch Hunt of the Late Twentieth Century (Seth Andrews)

Started by Loren Miller. Last reply by Loren Miller on Wednesday. 1 Reply

To a degree, I think the following video and talk are mislabeled.  Oh, absolutely, Seth talks at length and in detail about the "Satanic Panic," the crazed obsession some Christians had about elements of popular culture through the 1970s, 80s, and…Continue

Tags: Dungeons & Dragons, Backward Masking, Pokemon, fear, The Thinking Atheist

The things I remember

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Loren Miller on Wednesday. 4 Replies

The things I remember about The John Birch Society, founded in 1958 by a candy entrepreneur, Robert Welch, who, in 1961, said the government of the United States was “50-70 percent” Communist-controlled and Dwight D. Eisenhower was a “dedicated,…Continue

Tags: of, Year, the, 1980, Evangelical

Roy Moore Is Exactly What the Republican Party Is All About

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Tom Sarbeck on Tuesday. 1 Reply

Roy Moore Is Exactly What the Republican Party Is All About"The rise of what used to be known as “the religious right” did not…Continue

Tags: Republican, Party, Moore, Roy, P.

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Comment by Joan Denoo on August 28, 2016 at 1:09pm

I agree with you, Joseph, when you wrote, “Some of these people living in poverty don't have the foundational education, having grown up in poverty with a horrible home life.  Some simply don't have the raw intellect.  Many people end up in horrible circumstances, at no fault of their own”

I think I can be classified as having grown up in a dysfunctional home and I confess to running away to marriage thinking I was going to escape free of the bonds that bound me to family violence. Once I realized I was caught in the same trap as my mother and both grandmothers, at 37-years old I ran again except this time I ran toward self-sufficiency. I am so grateful I did. A lot of people get caught in such traps. 

When I returned to college it was easy to get grants and scholarships so I was able to pay off my education to the master’s level in a couple of years. That is not possible now. 

I had three 10-year olds to feed when I ran so I also did a lot of strategic planning, i.e. I grew a huge garden out of a piece of land that was pure weeds. I went to our local mom and pop grocery and told them what I was doing to support myself and asked if there were any way I could get protein and dairy at a cheaper price. They agreed I could scavenge in their back room and take outdated meat and dairy at $1.00 a box. I took advantage of that for one year and I have been a full paying customer ever since, 42 years ago. 

I was in error when I liked the idea of Penn’s and libertarianism. Housing, food, health care, transportation, and education, when left to the market, creates, maintains, and perpetuates poverty. It is in the national interest to provide stability and opportunity to low-income people. 

The present economy with such skyrocketing prices leaves more people behind. Libertarianism does not fill the gaps. We need a fundamental change in our politics, economics, education and a lot of other things. 

I would include in that fundamental change is to give up superstition and mythology as guiding principles. 

Comment by Joan Denoo on August 28, 2016 at 12:37pm

@Joseph 

I disagree with you that poverty  “isn't an example of how people make bad choices.” Just by simple observation, I agree that US prejudices limit opportunities for many people, i.e. nationality, race, religion, age, size, etc. There exist all kinds of things that limit the opportunity for otherwise skilled people. I do make the mistake of thinking of white populations because that is the culture with which I am acquainted. However, out of my all-white elementary (0 non-whites) and secondary school (400 white to 24 people of color+-). I observed foolish elementary school students at the 40 and 60-year reunions, and they exhibit the same silly behaviors as when we were kids. Why did those stupid kids not make sensible decisions when they reached the ripe old age of 60 and 80? I haven’t a clue! Did they want to be poor? I don't think so. Did they want to live in run-down houses? Hardly. Did they like to drive beat-up clunkers? I can’t imagine it. 

What about the minority kids in my high school class? I was pretty good friends with most of them, and they all sought education in the skilled trades, in businesses, or in professions. What was different about those kids who had few opportunities, and what opportunities they did have they created themselves. Also, their parents pushed them very hard. They were mostly at the top of my math and science classes in high school. Perhaps their parents understood that life was going to be harder for them than for their white classmates. 

Comment by tom sarbeck on August 28, 2016 at 12:11pm

HuffPo?

The one now owned by General Electric?

Comment by Bertold Brautigan on August 28, 2016 at 12:02pm

Now boyz . . . 

Here's a little something to cheer you up. From HuffPo no less:

Donald Trump Is Going to Be Elected

Comment by Joseph P on August 28, 2016 at 11:42am

... which are the words of someone who has no reasonable reply.

Heh heh heh heh heh.

Oh well, I didn't expect much from you anyway.  No worries.

Comment by tom sarbeck on August 28, 2016 at 11:39am

     So, let me see if I have this straight, Tom. ....

Joseph, your conclusions (if that's what they are) don't merit a reply.

Comment by Joseph P on August 28, 2016 at 11:34am

In Christie's defense, Trump wasn't talking about Mexicans in general, just the Mexican rapists that they were sending up to America.  Totally different, right?

Comment by tom sarbeck on August 28, 2016 at 11:30am

Bert, das ist subtil.

Comment by Bertold Brautigan on August 28, 2016 at 11:08am

Winston Smith is waiting on line two.

Comment by Joseph P on August 28, 2016 at 10:50am

@Joan

Yeah, the big problem with the arguments that people like Penn make isn't that they aren't validly constructed arguments.  They often aren't validly constructed arguments, but even when they are, they aren't grounded in reality.

To go to one of my favorite, obscene examples, there's Adolph Hitler.  If Hitler's rhetoric was correct, and the Jews, down to a man (and woman), were a monstrous race that was intent upon the destruction of society, then the extermination of them would have been a positive act to save the rest of humanity.  But of course, Hitler was wrong, or at least he was a vicious, sociopathic monster who was willing to use the demonization of a minority group to advance his own ends ... you know, sort of like Donald Trump and Muslims.

There's then the further issue with Penn's argument, in that a removal of taxation would destroy society as we know it.  There has to be a certain consequentialist element to any moral argument.  The consequences of stopping mandatory taxation are too great to allow it.

His equation of taxation with theft/holding-a-gun-to-your-head is also bullshit.  You don't have to use US currency.  Using it requires the acceptance of the social contract that goes along with it, though, ie. taxation.

There are people who manage to go completely off the grid.  They live off the land and are self-sufficient.  There are plenty of places out west where you can do that, and the government will more or less leave you alone.

The absolute, libertarian position that Penn and others are supporting is one of the purest entitlement.  They want the benefits of society without the costs of living in that society.

They like being able to drive on public roads and highways without having to pay for the public roads and highways.  They want to live off of the labor of the poor without supporting the needs of the poor.  I find it very disgusting.

And no, I don't care if he moderates his arguments a bit, in the second half of the video, as a concession to reality.  I couldn't make it past 4 or 5 minutes, myself.  The fact that his ideals are represented by the first half of the video is the important part.

 
 
 

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