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Comment by Joan Denoo on March 18, 2013 at 2:54pm

Correction: All we had to do was take away their ability to have control over their own lives and take away their ability to predict what was happening to them.

Comment by Joan Denoo on March 18, 2013 at 2:53pm

GOD'aye, sorry to learn of your mate's depression all these years after his experience. My understanding is that depression comes when a person feels out of control of his/her own life and unable to predict the outcome. Controllability and Predictability. Has he ever talked to a professional? If his depression is situational, there are treatments available, usually involving cognitive-behavioral therapy  and if it is chemical, medications may help.

During my training, we had to teach rats to be depressed. It was incredibly easy. All we had to do was take away their ability to have control over their own lives and take away their ability to unpredict what was happening to them. We read about teaching depression in lab animals such as cats, dogs, pigeon, mice, fish, octopus, and prisoners of war, and torture techniques.

It is extremely easy to learn; not so easy to unlearn.

Comment by Dyslexic's DOG on March 18, 2013 at 1:31am

Though I've had my own dealings with pedophile priests, a mate is still getting depression nearly 40 years after walking in on a priest raping a 12 year old boy.  He reported it to the principle and nothing happened, the priest simply got transferred to another school to continue the same abuse there.

He's never had closure, even though some of the priests involved have finally served small sentences since, for other similar abuses, like 28 months. Pitiful really!

Some have been left alone because they are now too old and regarded as invalids.

Such abuse has very profound affects, not only on the victims, but those children who witnessed such abuse.

Comment by Joan Denoo on March 18, 2013 at 12:54am

Jessica, I am happy to see you joined this group. We want an end to centuries of abuse of boys and girls by priests and not be held accountable. 

Comment by Dogly on March 14, 2013 at 2:57pm

Joan, complaining that you made them think, is great praise for any teacher.  Congratulations!

Comment by Joan Denoo on March 14, 2013 at 2:23pm

I understand that many people feel embarrassed about speaking up, especially in sensitive subjects such as religious pedophilia. Amer, I only suspect and yet understand how difficult it is to speak your truth in your country. I often wonder how change can occur in such cultures and yet I have hope. Do stay safe and don't martyr yourself for this or any cause. However, feel support from those of us who know and understand your concerns and commitments. I am very thankful to have you as a friend. 

For the shy ones in this country, start out small; experiment, explore ways of telling your truth and challenging thinking of others. 

When I taught college classes many of my students wrote critical evaluations of me because I "caused them to think!" That is the greatest complement I could have had and that I wanted. Think. Use that tool nature provided you. If you remain silent the universe misses out on your knowledge. 

Comment by amer chohan on March 14, 2013 at 2:01pm

Looks like I missed a lot because of some days absence. Thanks pat for informaton about age of joining clergy.

In these days topic remained in the back of my mind. Pedophilia looks to be a common disease among clergy of all religions. Here Pakistani Religious schools(we have them in excess of 20,000) are notorious for child sex abuses. Its a common understanding among the society that this practice goes on with in the religious schools. Some times an isolated case comes into lime light but dies down quickly for some reasons(community of various religious schools is heavily armed and very threatning).

I was thinking that people like Joan are doing great job in the sense that even if they are not able to bring the culprits to the justice, there voices are making this practice difficut for the future. It is check in itself. Thats what our media, NGOs and we in personal capacity are unable to do here in Pakistan. In a way this practice goes on protected under the umbrellas of religion and guns.

Comment by Joan Denoo on March 13, 2013 at 1:39pm

Steph, you not only provide valuable information but you also have so many ways of brightening my day. Thanks dear friend. 

Comment by Joan Denoo on March 13, 2013 at 1:37pm

Tom Sarbeck, thank you so much for your contribution. These authors and studies reveal very important information and reassures me that people who think and speak out can and will make a difference. Most people don't realize, for example, that child protective legislation came out of animal protection laws. 

With information easily available and written in language easily understood, I have confidence that more people will become critical thinkers and responders. Already we see people standing out for and speaking up for reasoning. 

Comment by tom sarbeck on March 13, 2013 at 1:27pm

"...too many people willingly submit to authority and fail to think for themselves."

Jean Lipman-Blumen, in her 2006 book The Allure of Toxic Leaders, deals with the willingness of people to submit to even toxic authority. How to account for it? Perhaps because the "bell-shaped curve" describes the distribution of mental ability. A few are very capable and a few are utterly incapable; most are in the mid-range.

On the treatment of children.

In the years following WW2, many commentators on the human condition described human beings as still coming up out of the "mud" of our origins in the jungle.

Forty years earlier, America put limits on the horrors of child labor as it existed then.

A mere 25 years ago, America gave human children the protections in law that domestic animals had gained a century earlier.

We have in us more sociopathy than we want to acknowledge. A bell-shaped curve describes its distribution too.


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