Yeah, the big problem with the arguments that people like Penn make isn't that they aren't validly constructed arguments. They often aren't validly constructed arguments, but even when they are, they aren't grounded…"
"So, let me see if I have this straight, Tom. You don't think that there are ... let's see:
voter-suppression laws state-level theocratic laws anti-sodomy laws gay-marriage bans abortion bans
Are you really saying that you don't…"
"That's pretty much the issue, yeah. The opposite of SJW seems to be socially-regressive asshole, and I find it best to use that more descriptive term. I'll leave the deceptive terminology to Fox News, home of the job-creators."
"No worries. I can see how that might have been slightly confusing. There might be someone out there somewhere who self-identifies as an SJW, but I've never met anyone who does so.
The whole Atheism+ thing always seemed like a bad…"
"You missed the direction I was coming from. I'm talking about people who use the term SJW, not the people who would fall under that heading. Steve Shives doesn't identify as a social justice warrior, because the people who…"
"One of my general rules is that if someone uses the acronym SJW, in anything but an ironic mockery of assholes who use the acronym SJW, I can pretty much give up trying to reason with the person, since there can't be any progress made."
"When people have violated which laws, Tom? The Voting Rights Act? Those have been violated, man. The day after the SCotUS decision.
If you mean other laws, then please specify. What are you talking about?"
"You bet. Most states have a religious requirement to hold ANY sort of public office, even water and soil commissioner. Those articles in their state constitutions are only invalid because they're superseded by the federal…"
"Also, what do you mean about dictatorial people trying to get governmental positions? Do you think that the Postmaster General is lording over her power over shipping in the US? Oh, wait, we have UPS, FedEx, DHL ...
And we've had…"
"When you guys speak of shrinking "big government," what exactly are you talking about? Are you talking about reversing the Affordable Care Act? Are you talking about Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security? The EPA?
"Yes, Joan, I'm referring to Penn Jillette.
You're missing the larger picture. He held up the example of a girl who got accepted to Stamford but who instead chose to get pregnant and flip burgers.
His example is pure bullshit. …"
"I consider the anarcho-capitalist libertarians to essentially be fundamentalists in their political positions.
There's no nuance. No attempt to construct a society and political system that will benefit the most people of that…"
"It's particularly a problem coming from someone with as much money as he has. I think that people like him have completely lost touch with the middle class and the poor. I'm with them on the civil-liberties side of things, but…"
"I'd love to see what the justification was for the passage of these laws. There's usually at least some hand-waving, such as the trans bathroom-bills being sold as protecting little girls from perverted men who want to invade…"
Ok, thanks. The messaging system on this site had me a little confused.
Montana is highly conservative; very few people I know share my religious or political views. Bozeman is a lot better than a lot of towns in Montana though. Being a college town brings more open minded people to the area, which is nice. I grew up in a tiny town in Montana and almost everyone there supports trump, "traditional marriage" and"putting god back in schools." And don't even talk about regulating their guns... I feel I have to censor a lot of what I say or people scream libtard.
And to be honest there's quite a bit of racism towards the Native Americans. I've heard more than a few people say, "I'm not a racist, but I hate Indians," if that makes any sense... makes me sad
So yeah, being an atheist in Montana can be pretty lonely
Well under Yugoslavia atheism was quite dominant (socialism etc), then christianity took control. Now with the immigration there is a massive almost forced conversion to islam being attempted it seems...
Hey there. It's not much different here now in "the bible belt" I'm a gay female and it hard as hell to be here. I've been here 3.5 yes now and have No friends. They do not care for my life style, they hate my music. I'm a metal head from way back. I'm sure you can imagine how I'm treated.
Thank you for your response. I really appreciate it and it makes me feel human. Here..
I'm a terrible person and I'm told constantly I'm going to hell and other such nonsense.
You got cut off on your last/second message. I assume you fell asleep? Or maybe just didn't realize it. And never apologize for rambling. I am a ramble monster myself and and I always appreciate when people can ramble back at me. Heh.
As far as having a mental illness because of indoctrination, I didn't escape that either. Although, I don't know if MY mental illness is because of being indoctrinated, but I do have a mental illness. And i was diagnosed in my early twenties, around the same time I was questioning a lot of things and such.
Hmmm, what else? Oh, magic shows and mythology. Growing up, my parents namely my dad's idea of bed time stories were of course bible stories. i didn't get exposed to greek myth or any other kind of myth until college and during my 'pagan period' as it were. I still enjoy myths, and find them interesting, but they are just as ... outlandish as xtian mythology. My mom is afraid of paranormal things which my dad watched, and I later got into. So that to a point was ... a foot in the door to being exposed to other things?
Also growing up instead of magic shows, I watched those Revival type shows on TBN, with Tim Storey or Benny Hinn. Faith Healers--for some reason as a child it fascinated me that they would 'push people over' (touch their forehead and they faint) and then 'god would heal them' I watched them over and over and over again.. like i did with certain disney movies and sesame street movies. Heh.
After I was diagnosed with my mental illness, my dad tried to take all my paranomral books away so I didn't get confused with the difference between fantasy and reality. I begged him to let me keep them, cause frankly it was the only thing i was reading at the time and the stories kept me sane, gave me something to look forward to every day. I find it odd in a way thinking back, that he didn't try to take the bible away from me too, but to him, I s'pose, that is reality.
And yeah, in regard to hiding/lying about my atheism, I am used to that. I have to lie about the other closets I am in as well, Its like a russian doll type of closet or something. I don't know, hahaha. So my dad can be comfortable in his ignorance, as I still live with him for the moment. I am hoping to move out of the bible belt and up north to either Portland, OR or Boston, MA. Maaybe even Hawaii. We'll see...
No worries, weekends are built for tuning out. heh.
And yeah, my parents are divorced. Have been since I was a baby. My dad's path was definitely louder and what I identified with most when I was among the Theist's ranks.
The experience of coming out of indoctrination is a rocky one. Cause I was deep into the faith game. But what got me out, was ... well, being in college AWAY from my parents, I was free to question things. It lead me down a path of paganism, and then later non-theism. I still respect the Earth and think we should take care of it, so I took that aspect of 'paganism' with me, but none of the gods or goddesses truly felt right.
I still struggle with the more subtle conditioning/programming of being indoctrinated soooo young (my parents are ministers too) like black / white thinking, one true wayism thinking, and such like that.
I'm not really out-out to many people. My mom knows, but I haven't told my dad though I don't go to church any more, so he's probably suspicious and 'praying for me to get right with god' as it were. I told my sisters both of them are hardcore xtians in a nondenominational church. My friends know but that's it.
So suffice to say I have a long way to go as far as 'coming out' but as they say coming out is not a one time deal. You have to do it. over and over for the rest of your life, sometimes. always new people to meet, and situations to either be true to yourself or lie and hide who you are..etc.
You're really lucky to be a 'natural born skeptic' as it were.. I'm a bit late to the party, but it's better than not getting an invite at all, right?
Thank you for the welcome! I am breaking out of .... well ... a sort of Eclectic Judeo-Xtianity? I guess you could call it. My mom is Disciples of Christ, and my Dad .... is Messianic/Pentecostal sorta deal. I'm not sure what you mean by 'experience' could you specify, perhaps?
Hi Joseph. Thanks for the comment. I have always been an atheist. I have been researching life extension this year. The other day I saw some shows (Vlogbrothers and Adam Ruins Death) that said we will probably not extend life and never live forever. I don't want to die and I don't know how to cope with that.