Loren Miller
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Loren Miller's Discussions

Decoding Jesus: Separating man from myth (CNN - John Blake)

Started this discussion. Last reply by Loren Miller Mar 16, 2017. 6 Replies

Timothy Freke was flipping through an old academic book when he came across a religious image that some would call obscene. It was a drawing of a third-century amulet depicting a naked man nailed to…Continue

Tags: Richard Carrier, Robert Price, mythicist, Jesus

World of Batsh!t - #7: Gravity (CoolHardLogic)

Started this discussion. Last reply by Loren Miller Jun 10, 2016. 3 Replies

Oh, dear ... CoolHardLogic has found another one!  We now have "B S Detector," a flat-earther holding forth on why he's right and everyone else is wrong.  This particular scientific "genius" seems to…Continue

Tags: Einstein, gravity, Dunning-Kruger, CoolHardLogic

World of Batshit - #6: Sphereless (CoolHardLogic)

Started this discussion. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Feb 15, 2016. 2 Replies

The flying mouse feces spreaders are BACK ... and CoolHardLogic has GOT 'em!  This time he's got some wingnut named Jeranism, who seems to think that there are no spheroidal objects in outer space,…Continue

Tags: Tycho Brahe, parallax, sphere, batshit, Dunning-Kruger

David Silverman – Fighting God & Firebrand Atheism

Started this discussion. Last reply by Loren Miller Sep 7, 2016. 58 Replies

I love David Silverman. Why? Because he has the brass cojones to call a spade a spade, he doesn't soften his approach and he doesn't back down.  Recently, in Zurich, Switzerland, David gave a talk on…Continue

Tags: firebrand atheism, Fighting God, David Silverman


Faith is NO Reason ... Truer words were never spoken.

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About Me:
I'm a semi-retired electrical engineer who has a rather eclectic background, never mind a few miles on the odometer. I suppose I was an "apatheist" for quite a while - largely indifferent to the whole issue of gods - but after 9/11 and the more blatant appearance of evangelicals and Dominionists on the scene, my atheism has finally come to the fore.

Other interests include high-end stereo and home theater (and with that, CD and DVD collecting), BMWs and general car enthusiasm, single-malt whisky and biking.

I flatter myself that I know my way around Atheist Nexus at least reasonably well (I've been here since November of 2009), so if you need a hand with something, please don't hesitate to give a shout.

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Latest Activity

Bertold Brautigan commented on Loren Miller's group Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful
"When it comes to how dangerous the smoke from the [Texas] plant is, local officials and FEMA have given statements that range from "non-toxic" to "the plume is incredibly dangerous." --Star-Telegram"
8 hours ago
Loren Miller commented on Ruth Anthony-Gardner's group Hang With Friends
"Oh, did I just get some MONSTER news from my kid!  Two line items, in fact: She has just been accepted into Georgetown University's graduate Intelligence program (and that's "intelligence" as in Langley!). She has just been…"
9 hours ago
Loren Miller commented on Ruth Anthony-Gardner's group Hang With Friends
"Those jerks are apparently willing to do and/or claim anything in order to advance their bullshit.  The problem is that their credibility is probably on a par with a certain occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania, NW.  To a degree, they're…"
12 hours ago
Loren Miller commented on Dyslexic's DOG's blog post Using Theology's Favourite Form of Logic (Deductive) to Destroy Theology. All Theological Arguments Fail From Having an Invalid Primary Premise, "God".
"@Compelledunbeliever – Steve Shives has been dismantling apologists' texts on YouTube since 2012, when he first tackled Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ.  Virtually without exception, his and my observation persists that such…"
19 hours ago
Loren Miller commented on Loren Miller's group Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful
"We owe a huge debt to Galileo for emancipating us all from the stupid belief in an Earth-centered or man-centered (let alone God-centered) system. He quite literally taught us our place and allowed us to go on to make extraordinary advances in…"
20 hours ago
Richard Lawrence joined Loren Miller's group

Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful

A place to share the words of others (or your own!) which have been impactful in your life, whether they're serious, poignant, humorous, or just something worth noting.See More
Loren Miller commented on Randall Smith's group Sports Talk
"Whatever else Tiger Woods is, he's a competitor, and a keen one at that.  The last two tourneys he was in, Tiger was clearly in the hunt, and while his game off the tee let him down in the last couple holes yesterday, his putter was…"
Loren Miller commented on Loren Miller's group Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be lighted. -- Plutarch I heard this one yesterday while watching that excellent HBO series, From the Earth to the Moon, and it speaks directly to what we've been talking about here. To…"
Joan Denoo commented on Loren Miller's group Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful
""YOU ARE WRONG ... and we can prove it." Damn! I hate to face the fact I have to confront the people I hold most dear to my heart and say, " "YOU ARE WRONG ... and we can prove it."  Being dependent for the last stage…"
Loren Miller commented on Loren Miller's group Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful
"Joan, I think there is a bit more to it.  It is also being willing to confront assumed authority and say, without embarrassment or shame, "YOU ARE WRONG ... and we can prove it."I am becoming more and more convinced that one of the…"
Joan Denoo commented on Loren Miller's group Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful
"Loren, I agree, absolutely! It is the process of questioning, doubting old traditions, exploring new ideas, one has to leave behind superstition look to learned attitudes and behaviors!  Gratefully and thankfully, we can think and act! We…"
Loren Miller commented on Loren Miller's group Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful
"The more we learn and grow, the less religion, it's foolishness, and it's a rationality make any kind of sense. So of course, religion tries either to reject, minimize, or co-opt science to maintain its control over the people that create…"
Idaho Spud commented on Loren Miller's group Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful
"We could be 1,500 years ahead of where we are now if it hadn't been for the church dragging science back by its coattails and burning our best minds at the stake. (Catherine Fahringer)"
Loren Miller commented on Loren Miller's group Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful
"Our lives improve only when we take chances - and the first and most difficult risk we can take is to be honest with ourselves. -- Walter AndersonWow ... no commentary needed ... none at all."
Loren Miller commented on Randall Smith's group Sports Talk
"Trust me, Randall: the physical exertion needed to complete a race, never mind the mental focus and acuity to continually balance a car on the razor's edge of control, utterly qualifies those drivers as athletes.  Certainly the Goodwood…"
Patricia commented on Loren Miller's group Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful
"I used to volunteer at the extended health care facility next to the hospital. I stocked the concession store, & shopped for the residents for anything they needed in town, & delivered it back to them. That was back in my walking days, but…"
Joan Denoo commented on Loren Miller's group Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful
"Loren, I have a different view, I see humans not as defying nature as much as learning from nature, discovering how things work, and identifyong the principles upon which nature stands. I discern humanity looking into the sky and figuring out ways…"
Joan Denoo commented on Loren Miller's group Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful
"Patricia, I agree, thoughts and actions would do me just fine. If one offers support to someone who needs it, a nice little muffin in a basket would do, or a reassuring comment, or an expression of compassion, or a ride to the doctor if that is a…"
Joan Denoo commented on Loren Miller's group Quotations – Momentous, Memorable, Meaningful
"That is right, Loren, that is the way it works. "
Loren Miller liked Randall Smith's group Sports Talk

Comment Wall (277 comments)

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At 12:48pm on February 18, 2018, shane clark said…

Thanks for the welcome Loren,Greetings to all from New Zealand, it's currently 7.45 am Monday morning....so if you want to know the future???? just ask me :-).  oh and by the way....jesus is coming....its pissing down with rain here at the moment....see infalible proof, anyone got a towel?

 i look forward to learning more of Dan Barker and Jerry De Witt.


all the best people, keep up the good work

best regards shane

At 6:13pm on January 9, 2018, Chris said…

Great quote Loren.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
-- Upton Sinclair

At 5:36am on January 9, 2018, Marianne Seals-Vahrenholt said…

New friend Loren!

Keep coming back here. Learning, that many people share my frame of mind. Thx a bunch for creating this site.

Everyone have a great 2018!!

Warm greeting from Germany

At 7:53pm on January 4, 2018, Dyslexic's DOG said…

Hi Loren,

Thanks for asking to be my friend.

I may stick around a little longer on A/N this time.

Last time I got overwhelmed by attacking Trump supporters since he started his run for presidency, but now I've settled down a bit, but still have fun stirring them up. :-D   

Thanks M8!  

At 9:32am on December 26, 2017, Chris said…


I agree with every thing you are saying.

"on this statement: but rarely are they utterly reversed upon admittance of further data."

I didn't make a statement that they do.

An unfortunate fact is that many people still believe in Gowd and the Lowered Jesus Christ because of that it's a good idea to know how believers think.

I didn't think of the word 'Truth' the way Raza presented it until I listened to him. 

Consider it a way to understand, if possible The POTUSs Donald Trumps  truthor Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) truth

Mitch McConnel,  Paul Ryan.  The list goes on and on.

They all have access to the same facts as every one else.

Their Truth is different

They and others propose wealth re-distribution to the top 1%  will help the economy and U.S.

There is no evidence it will.

Are they delusional? No.   They know what it's about.

Is the public who subscribes to the notion of  trickle up economic theory delusional?


Pragmatically the R's such as McConnell and Ryan are doing a great job "For themselves and donors." The votors are too ignorant because of  the terrible news media available to be able to make informed descisions at the voting booth. Also because media outlets are nothing other than entertainment with a bunch of political speculators rather than Ambassadors, and University professors or INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISTS  many don't have enough information to vote.

That's the goal isn't it?

At 8:43am on December 26, 2017, Chris said…

Facts change with new scientific evidence.

Truth is what someone believes in regardless, or contrary  to the the facts. Evolution and climate change denial for example. WMD's in Iraq justified the war may be another truth.  Jesus was a raal person who was born from a virgin and was killed by the Roman empire for being a revolutianary.  After Jesus's death he rose  to heaven and took all the other dead people (throught history and across the little world) with him into heaven Because of Jesus' sacrafice everyone is absolved of original sin. 

Original Sin, or coarse meands god didn't make human't correctly in the first place..

All of that religious nonsense is about 'Truth." 

Aesops fables are about truth as well.  People fortunately, or unfortunately  don't take Aesop as  serious as limited Abrahamic texts put in the Bible, or Coined in the Koran.

At 10:06am on December 25, 2017, Chris said…


Comment by Loren Miller 2 hours ago

A myth may teach a valuable lesson, such as Aesop's Fables without having any basis in reality.  The lesson may be true, but that's as far as it goes.  Aron Ra offers the following definitions:

  • Fact: A point of data which is either not in dispute, or is indisputable in that it is objectively verifiable.
  • Truth: Any statement which has been or can readily be shown to actually be true. Personal testimony, conviction, conjecture, or speculation can turn out to be true, and may even be accepted as true whenever objection seems unwarranted, but no statement should be classed as ‘truth’ until examined and vindicated.

A fact may be said to be an element of "The Truth," and again, Aron has a position on this matter which I find on point:

If you don't care what the facts are, then you don't care what the truth is.
-- Aron Ra

At 9:48pm on December 9, 2017, Yaphet K. Graham said…

Hello Loren, thanks for the greeting. Sorry it took a bit to answer, relatives were over and we were having a good time while freezing our buns off.

At 12:41am on November 27, 2017, Marianne Seals-Vahrenholt said…

Danke!! thx a bunch for having me!!! :o)

At 3:35pm on September 26, 2017, Joan Denoo said…

I'm trying to remember how to get a video into comments without losing height or width. Will you please remind me of the dimensions that work for video? 


Loren Miller's Blog

Dear Senator Portman: Regarding Gun Control...

Posted on February 18, 2018 at 12:00pm 13 Comments

Don't ask why it's taken so long for me to write. Stipulated that I've been involved in "clicktivist" petitions about gun control and perhaps written my representatives here and there in the wake of past mass shootings. Somehow, this last incident at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High just GOT to me. That and learning that Ohio Republican Senator Rob Portman has an "A" rating with the National Rifle Association pretty well broke my camel's back.

In any case, the following just went out…


Meditations on "Jonah"

Posted on February 13, 2018 at 9:00am 1 Comment

They say Jonah, he was swallowed by a whale,

But I say, there's no truth to that tale.

I know Jonah, he was swallowed by a song.

-- Paul Simon, "Jonah"

I was going to save that quote for an entry in the Quotations group, but it and the music that accompanies it really captured me this morning ... or “swallowed” me, as Paul put it.

I really admire that – being so consumed with a skill, talent, or desire that it utterly occupies your life, as…


What Would It Take to Believe?

Posted on January 9, 2018 at 8:10am 18 Comments

How many times have we heard it:

“What would it take for you to accept that god exists?”

Answers from atheists to this question have been many and varied.  In an interview with Randy Frazee of the Oak Hills Church of San Antonio, Texas, Friendly Atheist Hemant Mehta said that a personal experience might convince him.  Various others, including Matt Dillahunty, have proposed that Yahweh himself knows what it would take to dissuade him from his apostasy, but as of yet has…


A Real Christmas Story

Posted on December 22, 2017 at 9:00am 0 Comments

Anyone who knows me reasonably well knows about my best friend.  I first met Rich at Hoffman’s House of Stereo in Cleveland, back in 1978, when I was taking my first look at investing in high-end stereo equipment.  As you doubtless have already guessed, he was the salesman who met me and showed off the wares his shop specialized in.  I became quite the regular visitor to Hoffman’s over the next several months, even after sinking my hard-earned cash into a Kenwood turntable, Goldring…




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