Atheists: when disbelief does not equal logic or critical thinking.

I've joined atheist forums all over the internet and even started my own local group of free thinkers to get together and have conversations that include logic and critical thinking, but I've started to notice something. A phenomenon that burst my smug little atheist bubble. There are so many articles and book and studies that say atheists are smarter, more logical, more open minded... I've come to understand that this statement is false. That's right.. I said it. Being an atheist does not automatically mean you are talking to a logical, intelligent, or even kind person. There are atheists who don't believe in vaccines, who do believe in ghosts, and will argue against you if they feel their truthiness is right even against facts and logic. I've personally been on many band wagons until I learned more, put the facts together and jumped off as quickly as possible.

One of these bandwagons was the anti vac crowd. I was 19 and I grew up with a friend who hadn't been vaccinated. I never really thought about why until I read some anti vaccine argument online. Vaccines cause Autism?! What a terrifying thought! And, in the anti vac community one tends to forget that without them far more children would be dying than getting autism even if it were true- which it's not. It didn't take much researching to find out that it was a load of bull. The main argument is that the perservative, thermisol, derived from mercury can cause autism. Autism is diagnosed about the same time that the MMR vaccine is given and it's a classic case of corelation not equally causation. Dozens of studies all conclude that vaccines do not cause autism. But one more piece of logic is missing and that is, as I mentioned before, that the sheer number of children who would die from these childhood killers (and they're called killers for a reason) makes any risk or autism completely worth it. The anti vac crowd takes the selfish stance that their child is more important than all the other children who would die should herd immunity vanish.

Another hot topic is circumscision. There is the intact crowd which believes that no child should have their genitals cut up and mutilated and every baby should go home intact. Then there's the pro circ crowd who's best argument is "everyone does it!". I've heard all the argument- it prevents STD's! Cutting up a boy's penis just in case he might get an STD later, or an infection for that matter, is like cuttin out a baby girl's breast tissue because she might get breast cancer later. Not only that, but cut American men get more STD's than intact European men. Condoms go much further than genital mutilation. I've also heard that babies don't feel pain or that it doesn't effect sexual pleasure or performance. 20,000 nerves are cut away. Tell me that doesn't effect pleasure. Women, how would you like to lose that many nerves from your clit? Doesn't sound all that pleasant, does it? Male genital mutilation was originally introduced in order to control masturbation. In some cultures it's purely religious. Either way there's zero reason to do it and much reason not to. And yet many atheists seem to be on the pro circ crowd. They seem to take insult with the term "genital mutilation" when used for males, but not for females. While I understand that no cut man wants to admit that his genitals have been mutilated against his will, mutilation is what it is by definition and it's no different from female genital mutilation.

The last big topic I've seen is veganism. While most vegans tend to be athiests, non vegan atheists tend to hate vegans. Why? Some believe it's because that they don't want to admit that they're doing something wrong. Atheists will abandon logic and jump on arguments like "but it's unnatural!" ignoring the fact that they're carrying a cell phone, typing on a computer, wearing polyesther blend clothing and eating hot pockets with a glass of milk- none of which is natural. Now, I can understand if an atheist says "i dont' care about animals or my health or the environment to screw it". This isn't a rejection of facts or logic- it's just.. well, being an asshole. But the fact is that most atheists assert argue things like: animals don't feel pain, they don't suffer, the death is painless, vegans are weak and unhealthy, it wouldn't make a difference, etc. They get mean and nasty and insulting out of defensiveness instead of being honest. The two best ways of dealing with your vegan friends or family? A. don't attack them every time they mention having a veggie burger for lunch. B. be honest and tell them you just don't care about animals/health/the environment C. listen, research, and become vegan.

When I became an atheist I had the crazy notion that other atheists were all really great people and super intelligent. While atheists are, on average, more intelligent than theists, it's not always true.. and they tend to not apply that intelligence to many things. It's true what they say- you really can't tell anything about a person by their atheism except their atheism.

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Comment by Susan Stanko on May 8, 2010 at 10:38am
Ah, I see, If we don't agree with you in everything then we are not using logic or critical thinking. Good to hear that you know everything.

How's that for being a dick. (Since you don't seem to know what that is exactly)
Comment by Heather on May 8, 2010 at 9:55am
okay- there are now too many posts for me to really read and respond to all of them- sorry guys.. i'm just too busy. but i want to point out that i think it's pretty funny that everyone agreed with everything up until the "self righteous vegan" part. of course they had no problem with the self righteous other parts because they agreed with them. Thanks for demonstrating my point though- of everything I mentioned.. everyone is only jumping on one thing- veganism. and all i see is mud slinging and name calling- no logic or critical thinking. If anyone would like to talk to me personally about veganism without being a complete dick (which i see many of you can't manage) then feel free to message me and we can have a logical and thoughtful discussion.
Comment by Susan Stanko on May 8, 2010 at 9:11am
LOL, Black Magick Woman.
Comment by Colin Sparrow on May 8, 2010 at 4:27am
I do not need to "guilt you" (not quite sure what that means). It is a testament to the paucity of your assumptive arguments (link to the purpose of Heather's thread) that you suggest I do something `real' to make the world a nicer place yet I am at a loss to know how you can now what I do or don't do already. You make assertions about a groups of people (vegans in this case) based it would seem on your personal experience of living with one. You have I bet assumed I am a vegan, I am not. However I am not threatened by their arguments as you appear to be (I can't think why else you would be so vitriolic about a lifestyle that hurts no one unless the relationship you alluded to hurt you). Whether PETA is gibberish or not is an opinion, but if I had inadvertently repeated something of theirs I can't see what the issue would be. Nothing you have contributed is original material. Your points were introspective and trite and the kind of things that fundamentalists say
Comment by Black Magick Woman on May 8, 2010 at 4:23am
Don't forget Soylent Cola, it varies from person to person!
Comment by Secular Sue on May 8, 2010 at 4:22am
>But the fact is that most atheists assert argue things like: animals don't feel pain, they don't suffer, the death is painless...<
Really? Most atheists argue that animals don't feel pain? That's a fact?
>non vegan atheists tend to hate vegans.<
Vegans can be very annoying and hard to cook for, but I doubt that most non-vegan atheists actually hate them. I suppose it's like religion though, if a vegan is harpin' on it all the time, you don't want to be around them much.
Comment by Jaume on May 8, 2010 at 4:20am
Just out of curiosity, on my deathbed I'll have a bit of my own flesh removed just so I can experience what human meat tastes like. Both raw and cooked.

"You can't claim to top the food chain unless you've tried Soylent Green." - Charlton Heston
Comment by Colin Sparrow on May 8, 2010 at 2:27am
Interesting side bar on veganism. Particularly the comments which suggest that as some animals live a better life (on the farm) than some humans this make it OK to eat them. This kind of speciest relativism is not an argument. Nor is it a rationale for not doing anything for animal or human rights. I guess the point the respondent misses is that some people have priorities. My guess is that most vegans and vegetarians are doing much more than he (has to be a bloke) is about human rights too.

Heather's blog has truly exposed that Atheists (if the respondent is one) can be as closed minded as anyone else.
Comment by Black Magick Woman on May 8, 2010 at 2:25am
What the hell is with everyone getting ill at my comment? It's not like I said gut the animal myself, sheesh. According to Heather, because I eat meat, I fall into one of the three asshole categories. I decided to make light of it by playing the asshole.
Comment by Sonny Mobley on May 8, 2010 at 1:07am
"It's true what they say- you really can't tell anything about a person by their atheism except their atheism. " Which is absolutely the point. You can infer very little about a person by just that.



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