Email: So, what if you're wrong about Hell, Alleee? (long response; get ready)

On Apr 7, 2009 7:27am, helen/zhebee wrote:
> Hello again
> I hope for your sake that you are right about hell
> but what if you are not right ......then what?
> Helen

If I am "not right" about hell?

Well, there are literally billions of possibilities that are very different or slightly different than my idea that there is no place where God designated for people who Don't Love Him to be tortured.

However, if it comes to that One Remotest of Possibilities, I would have to conclude that there is a God, and He is the worst possible being to have ever existed. I would have to conclude that some people worship this horrible monster, knowing that It made a rule that when people don't love It, that they would be forced to roil in non-consuming flames for eternity, which is just as far from 100,000 billion years as one year is.

I'd have a couple choices as a moral human being.

1. Drop to my knees and worship this monster, because of the threat.
2. Fight, no matter how useless that fight would be.

Those who drop to their knees and worship would be justified, since it's not really a moral choice anyway. If someone has a loaded gun pulled on you, whatever you do is not your fault anymore. It's self-defense, pure and simple. But it's the cruelest thing any being could do, save for, I guess, threatening to torture one's children forever.

Those who fight are those who have nothing left to lose against such a horrible, alien being. But hey, at least they retained their dignity at the last moment before the eternal torture commences. Those in heaven get to live for eternity thinking that the ones being tortured forever, perhaps family members, people they loved more than their own lives, "deserved it."

I cannot help but wonder what kind of terrible "heaven" it would be, knowing one was chosen by this bloodthirsty monster, and knowing that one's beloveds are screaming in pain. Some I've talked to told me they would be allowed to watch while people like me were screaming and crying for water, or relief from their wounds. What kind of person thinks this, Helen. Would he be a good christian, in your judgment? Would he deserve the kind of heaven you imagine?

Thing is, Helen, most people deny God's omnipotence at this point and pretend that He has no power to stop this horror from happening; that somehow it's Not His Fault, His Hands are Tied. What kind of God is that? He made Hell, according to the bible, and of course, being God who created EVERYTHING, created the rule (terrible threat) that everyone who does not love him must go there. So, really, if He denies any responsibility, he's more immoral than I thought before.

Some try to mitigate this Horror by pretending that Hell is "only" eternal separation from God. I ask, is this okay? "no!" I ask, "is it tolerable?" "NO!" I ask, "Is it the worst thing to ever happen to someone?" They say "YES!"

So, then, how is this not torture? It's worse than what the Vietkong did to people, right? Of course right, because it's the worse punishment imaginable, this Twilight-Zone-type hell.

So, Helen, if I am "wrong about Hell," you might very well be a terrible person for worshiping your God. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're a good person who just never really thought about the implications of a God who allows eternal torment. But now that you've read this, I hope you think about it the next time you point your finger at someone like me and assume that I deserve this kind of torture. After all, if I deserve it "after I'm dead," then it logically follows that they might as well put me in a torture camp right now, for being an unbeliever.

Is that really the kind of person you are, Helen?

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Comment by Talibangelist on April 8, 2009 at 7:17am
No, no, no. Heaven is all happiness and gold everywhere. It kinda looks like a flea market without the $3 dollar sunglasses. But if it doesn't have the $3 dollar sunglasses how can it be heaven? Damn, another conundrum.

But seriously, all the descriptions of heaven I've ever heard don't sound like heaven for ME. I want weed and xbox games I can actually win, my wife happy with me and my kids would be nice too, I sure hope we die all at the same time or else they may be upset with me when I die, but hey I'm the man so they come with me according to the misogynistic reference we use. If I'm gonna put off all the "worldly" shit while I'm on the world then I damn well deserve it when I'm in heaven. But my wife doesn't like the description of heaven that has been given either, or weed, so she would need her own heaven which may/may not be compatible with my heaven, if heaven is indeed someones idea of perfect. I have actually used this in argument and get told I am not ready for heaven then because I want "worldly" things still, I need to work harder to deserve heaven. I just think that heaven is kinda stupid and a childish wish that you get what you have denied yourself while alive.
Comment by Rev Hellbound Alleee on April 8, 2009 at 4:20am
Right. If there was a war in heaven then, there could be wars all throughout the "1000 years."
Comment by Rosemary LYNDALL WEMM on April 7, 2009 at 11:49pm
The problem with Heaven is that it doesn't preclude ending up in Hell anyway. Think of Satan and his angels. They revolted and got kicked out so all those criminals who converted on their death beds might end up leading a whole set of revolts once they got there. Then there would be Haggert, Falwell, Phelps and the abortion clinic bombers just looking for people to kill for Jesus. Heaven might end up like a war zone.
Comment by Jim DePaulo on April 7, 2009 at 7:17pm
I like to think of heaven as a place where all the tight ass pious assholes go, where they can practice their tightass assholery with like minded souls for eternity ... hell would be the preferred choice if that's the case..
Comment by Rev Hellbound Alleee on April 7, 2009 at 4:56pm
What I wonder is why aren't people held accountable for the beliefs they hold? Why is it perfectly okay, even commendable, for your sister-in-law to essentially think that your going to hell is a good thing? Or that you must compromise your ethics in order to be "saved?"

No one is asked to be responsible for what they believe. Unless we ask ourselves to do this.
Comment by Dave Kennedy on April 7, 2009 at 3:26pm
Sounds just like my sister in law. She's nuts too! Why do people believe this crap? She is positive that my wife and I are going to burn in hell and that we'll be mad at her for not convincing us to believe in the bible.
Comment by Richard Healy on April 7, 2009 at 1:55pm
I guess I have this uncontrollable habit of pushing against open doors. ;-)
Comment by Rev Hellbound Alleee on April 7, 2009 at 1:55pm
"Yeah I was gonna mention the whole "if that sends me to hell what about the other 10k some odd gods I have to appease too," but got tripped up on my hell with dildos thought."

I think I started to mention that:

"Well, there are literally billions of possibilities that are very different or slightly different than my idea that there is no place where God designated for people who Don't Love Him to be tortured."

...but I could have expanded. I think I had too much to say.
Comment by Rev Hellbound Alleee on April 7, 2009 at 1:53pm
...and I have this all-consuming desire to be truthful at all times, even to random Christians who email me because of a supposedly blasphemous comic on my podcast page.

I don't know, but I don't think it's immoral to at least withhold some truth from her. I mean, I don't know her; she doesn't know me. Some people would say that it would be moral to just lie to be polite. I act on instinct; a sort of immature reaction to this thing that might have been caused by my childhood all-encompassing Christian life--which I need to get over.

I understand it might be futile, but I know my nature. If I found out this god existed, I would want to fight it. So I fight, as if life were a game (which I believe with what little belief I have that it isn't).
Comment by Rev Hellbound Alleee on April 7, 2009 at 1:48pm
I would have mentioned the Pascal's Wager thing, but she hasn't brought it up yet.



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