everybody must check this out. my...debate? with an utter retard on facebook. I was floored laughing.

The fun part starts at "let the slaughter begin." I think it's well worth the read.



My post on a poll:
This kind of idolizing of dead people is why conservatives are so backwards. “BUT LOOK!! The f-f-founders said this!” Is not even a good argument and shouldn’t have so much weight on debate. What matters is now, not then. They founded this country based on what they knew in their present. If you want to make that argument, the FOUNDERS were, in fact, radical liberals. They defied the conservative values of Britain of the time and made a future for themselves rather than relying on the past. The idea of idolizing people who have no current weight on social issues holds us back as a country. All social customs are meant to be revised and/or cut where necessary to bring us into the future.
This nation was founded on slavery and the oppression of women, but where are the conservatives who stand up for these values? The founders were inspiring leaders who did the best they could in the time that they were born and lived. We are to do the same if we are truly to honor them. Clinging to the past holds us back as a society. Our time is what is important. We should never lose sight of that.
Those who wrote the Constitution also left room for CHANGE via the elastic clause (look that one up, why don’t you?) to prevent bigots like right wingers who want to use it to serve their own selfish intentions.
We are a nation of FREE people. Our nation was “Founded” as one by the people and for the people. I will not be ruled over without debate simply because it is NOT how we were founded and it is NOT what this nation stands for.
Amendments to our constitution have ended racial oppression, sexual oppression, and now it’s time to end religious oppression in policy-making. THIS IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION. You want to make one? Then you are an oppressive, bigoted control freak and are a shame to this free nation that you profess to love.

the idiot's response:
Tommy:
okay dude, I'm just gonna come out and say it...you're an IDIOTIC LOSER! I'm talking Revenge Of the Nerds style loser here. Like, I'm being 100% serious here. Get a life, pick up sports, get a girl, do something, because you're so far off the beaten path of reality one might consider you to be wierder than Tom Cruise. But then again, I guess I ... have somewhat more respect for Tom Cruise becuase he at least has a belief in something. The arguments that you post day in and day out about your souless and really cowardly lack of belief are not only pathetic but absolutely erroneous as well. You're pretty much just embarrassing yourself by preaching stupid crap which only goes to show how uneducated you really are, so go tell it to your video game friends. And guessing from the article that you just posted regarding our country, you're one of those CHANGE freaks as well. Well let me tell you something, the United States of America is the greatest country on the face of this earth and you my friend should be thankful that you're here. There is no need to change the system or ideoligies that have allowed us to flourish since the get-go. The founding fathers weren't dumb, unlike you, and wrote the Constitution to serve as the governing body for as long as our country is in existence. Many of my family members, including my dad and grandparents, have served their country and protected that Constituion. Yet, nutjobs like yourself want to change everything because you're whiny pompus asses who feel left out because nobody else sees things the incorrect ways that you do. Well here's a solution, if you don't like the way America runs things, then LEAVE, get out, go back to the ancestor's land wherever that may be. I'm sure you'll be just as happy somewhere else. And Conservatives are not backwards, you're wrong yet again. I feel like you being wrong is becoming a common trend here, oh wait, it is. The Conservatives are doing the only thing that is right. They are fighting to leave this great country the way it is, without having to hear all the BS about climate change and illegal immigration healthcare and such. America is great! So why don't you go and get jacked up, grow a pair, build some self confidence, and find your way!


Let the massacre begin... muahaha

Jacob (my friend who go there first):
To say that any system in the world is perfect is truly ignorant and naive. Systems need to evolve to suit society's evolution. If we had left things just the way they were when the founding father set things down, while the rest of the world continued to evolve, america would be a big terrible joke. Not saying that liberals are right about everything, just saying tommy's ignorant. Which I guess was already common knowledge.



Tommy:
Okay so let me get this straight. I'm ignorant for being the voice of sanity and reason here? Haha sure. I agree Jacob, systematic evolution is necessary with the times, but founding ideologies are not. Johnny Whacked Out *last name* over hear is arguing the constitutional beliefs and for sticking up to him Jacob you're just as pathetic. Like let's be ... serious here, Johnny, who believes that our country was founded on slavery and the oppression of woman, is obviously one of the dumbest, stupidest, most uneducatedly confused individuals that I have ever come across. Anyone who believes the things he does should seek help fast because u have no purpose and have lost your way in life. There is something seriously wrong with an 18 year old kid preaching this kind of garbage. And as I said before, if u don't like the beliefs that America was founded on then leave. Go back to whereever it was your family came from because Uncle Sam doesn't want your low life ass here.


Jacob:

I love how the English language deteriorated through that rant. Uneducatedly? Really?


Johnny (finally found it. I already hate this guy, btw for good reasons as you can see so no judging my responses too harshly):
HAHAHA ok tommy it's a challenge. Much smarter people than you have tried to prove god. go ahead and try it. if you give a shit about me going to hell, try and convert me with some logic. If you want me to go, you're quite the sadist and we should have a little chat about who's the moral one.
The coward is the one who stands behind his wall of faith and preaches out of it without examining what he believes. Think you can defend yourself? Go ahead. Your efforts have been less than thought stimulating so far.
I don’t preach. I debate. If any Christian was smart enough to defend faith, they would have done it by now. I have even watched in my opinion the smartest Christian debate Dawkins. Even then, his thoughts were based completely on Pascal’s wager, which has proven flaws.
Embarrassed myself, did I? My my! I heard that someone think that George Bush is one of the greatest presidents of all time! Now that’s embarrassing.
I take it that regarding your post about CHANGE freaks that you agree with being under the control of the government that doesn’t observe the rights of the people. You’re right. You’re the true American whose morals go dusty on the shelf while society evolves around you. You must be a slave owner, a racist and a sexist too. America was founded on those morals as well....

“The United States is the greatest country on earth”
Empt y statement. It’s one of the free countries for right now, but not if it lapses into theocracy like people seem to be trying. What makes something great is based on the example we set for the world. Wake up call! The world has hated us for awhile now! Canada, Britain, France, etc. Go ahead and put the blinders on and say it’s because they’re jealous. Really, it seems to be because we are a bunch of ethnocentric pricks who think that we know what’s best for the entire world. That makes America the home of bigotry.
Of course, we’re not all like that. As long as Fox news is popular we will always be though.

“ideologies that allowed us to flourish from the get-go”
*cough* slavery… go ahead and defend that. It’s even in the bible if you’d like some help.

“The Founding fathers were not dumb, unlike you”
Mature. Let’s run our government like this: 4 year olds having a tantrum and calling each other names is a GREAT way to debate government. It may be ok on Fox but welcome to the real world. It doesn’t make your opinion very respectable at all. I haven’t taken you seriously yet.

Your ancestry of serving forefathers has nothing to do with a governmental debate. Perhaps you think the foot soldiers should have made up the government, then? It’s an empty statement. I appreciate their service, but fighting in wars is emotional propaganda. Useless.
Leave?!?! The mother land?!?! SHIT, dude, did I detect some racism there? You’re idea of fucking freedom is agree or leave/be deported? You idiotic bigot. Say something sensible or don’t waste my time.

“And Conservatives are not backwards. Wrong again.”
Ooh… you told me. More empty statements that you didn’t bother to defend! What a thought-provoking debate.

“Conservatives are only doing what’s right”
Empty. No reason why. Just more bigotry.

“this country the way it is”
This country “the way it is” has an elastic clause that allows for flexibility of interpretation and also the ability to make amendments to the constitution. Clearly, you don’t like that part of America at all… the freedom? Again, you seem to favor an oppressive government that doesn’t give the people the right to change the constitution with the times.

“I feel like you becoming wrong is becoming a trend here, oh wait, it is”
In what universe does that strike you as a useful statement? I’m squirming at how much you’re embarrassing yourself.

L.O.L the self-conscious nutjob who just threw a temper tantrum with no defense for his sweeping generalizations just told me to grow a pair. Fuck you, man. Grow a brain and debate if something offends you. Defend your beliefs if you can, coward.

and who's the idiot who thinks that the country wasn't founded on slave labor?


Tommy:
Omg Johnny. your posts are always so philosophical and thought-provoking." Like oh my, you like live in a cult dude...wake up!!! If your such a believer in non-believing, then I guess you could just call yourself an accidental freak of nature then because you have no purpose, no being, no will or reason to be on this earth. Here's an idea, why don't you try pissing up a flagpole or spitting into the wind and see where nature takes you on those journeys. That'll get you jacked I'm sure.

First off, being under the control of the government that doesn’t observe the rights of the people is a liberal ideology dumbass! Next, fighting in wars to protect our freedom is emotional propaganda? Try telling that to all of the family and friends who have lost someone in the service you pompous ass-wipe. So yes, why not go grow a pair and fight to protect the freedom that you take advantage of in this country. Go ahead, see what it's like.

First of all, this country WAS founded on Christian ideas, since all of the founding fathers were Protestant. If most Americans are asked if the "separation of church and state" is in our Constitution, they will answer yes. You can search the Constitution of the United States, and you will NOT find the phrase, "separation of church and state" or anything close to it. ...

Next, the ideas that this country were founded on were...individual liberty, personal responsibility, Constitutionally limited government (that's Conservatism you dumb ass pissant) and the rule of law. And yes to answer your question, the foot soldiers did help make up the government because without them, there would have never been a Revolutionary War victory.

Get your facts straight man. I mean, really!

America is the greatest country on this earth and for that very reason we don't have to set an example for the rest of the world. Do you really think North Korea and Iran are gonna change unless we take a stand? Dream on dreamweaver!

Finally, you are the most un-American kid I've ever known. You speak so badly about the country you reside in that I do question why you are here? To take advantage of the things this great country offers without offering anything in return most likely. So if you dislike everything so much, then call up the travel agency and go home, wherever that may be. Don't question my true American morals when yours are so far out of whack that you make Michael Moore look like a saint!

P.S. Mary *last name* (my gf), you seem like a nice girl, run away...fast! Just run like the wind and never stop. You can do so much better than this whacked out nut! I can only imagine the horror it must be spending time with him.




Johnny:
If your such a believer in non-believing”
Not believing without evidence? Sure... even someone that hardly has the ability to string sentences together can do that. There’s a fuzzy pink unicorn behind you that disappears when you turn around!!! Do you believe it?

No purpose? No reason? It’s arrogant of you to think that the world revolves around you. You like thinking that, don’t you? Animals keep on living with no “reason” too. Wrap your powerful intellect around that, if you will. You’re soooo smart. If there’s no dictated purpose for me to live, that means die??? You and your slave morality lol. Find a good reason why I should die... oh wait... I don’t want to pretend to think for a second that you can reason...

“Here's an idea, why don't you try pissing up a flagpole or spitting into the wind and see where nature takes you on those journeys”
LOL maybe I should if it’s written in the bible, hm? Why the fuck would I do that? Seriously, do you live on a nuclear reactor?

“being under the control of the government that doesn’t observe the rights of the people is a liberal ideology dumbass!”
Here’s how an intelligent debate works... you make a statement and then you back it up. Good job doing that here, fucktard. Do explain if you can.

“Next, fighting in wars to protect our freedom is emotional propaganda?”
Fighting in wars is not emotional propaganda. The way you used it to stupidly defend your beliefs was irrelevant, so your useless statement was.

“First of all, this country WAS founded on Christian ideas, since all of the founding fathers were Protestant”
As untrue as that is, it doesn’t matter. Your stupid link to Christianity is retarded. I can do the same thing.
Henry VIII was Christian.
He murdered his wives for his selfishness
Therefore, he has Christian morals.
That’s a stupid argument. Just because someone has good or bad ideas/morals does not mean that they do things BECAUSE of their ideologies. Whatever... I’ll humor this idea if you still want to run with it, but first you have to explain to me what you think these “uniquely Christian” morals are.

“You can search the Constitution of the United States, and you will NOT find the phrase, "separation of church and state" or anything close to it.”
Good! So you affirmed my suspicion that you think America should be a theocracy run by Christian morals that hypocritically professes free speech. Well done, btw. You cited a document! Maybe there’s hope for you after all.
“Do you really think North Korea and Iran are going to change unless we take a stand?”
1. Yes, our policymaking so far has REALLY helped show those naughty countries!
2. What the fuck do you think that Europe is doing? Sticking their thumbs up their asses and waiting for us to change the world?

Conservatism at the time the country was founded was the values of England. The founders were the radical liberals of the time who opposed conservative values and shaped America as a country by the people, for the people. They did NOT set up a government in which the people are slaves to the founders’ interpretation. The founders quoted Locke explicitly. You can’t get around that. In the Declaration of Independence, it was explicitly stated that any government that does not represent the people should be done away with. THAT is the founding philosophy of this country. All else is useless speculation. We are to shape our country into what is best for us NOW, not back then.

I must say, Tommy. Your thoughts are so thought provoking that I actually had to take time to take apart what you said and evaluate it. I evaluate: a stupid bigot who doesn’t know how to respond to fucking anything. All you do is string insults and hope something hurts or sticks. You can’t defend your own beliefs because you don’t give a shit about defending them. You’re content walking around like a bumbling idiot (it’s pretty much consensus. Everyone thinks you are.) and throwing your opinion at people with no support and expecting people to give a shit. Grow up or shut up.

Actually, don’t shut up... I’m rather enjoying this. It’s like an episode of Family Guy. Please continue your thought process, Mr. Griffin.


and the coward ran away and moped on his status...LOL oh what fun!

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Comment by Johnny on December 28, 2009 at 11:59am
"why are most religious people the most intollerant people on this planet"

ah! careful! Abrahamic religions. Don't go offending the poor Buddhists and Taoists. Atheists and Christians alike, they are the most peaceful I know, but it has a lot to do with the fact that they don't believe that god is personal and listening, but an energy source that they need to be at peace with in order to connect with.
try as hard as I might, I can't find a problem with buddhists. they are the most tolerable people.

and he's not from the south. Northern Virginia is one of the most diverse, populated, and liberal places in the US. it is practically its own state. It has hundreds of religions and we are exposed to hindus, buddhists, taoists, christians, muslims, you name it i've probably met at least one.
I blame his parents. It's not the education.

and whoah there Stump. don't be debating anybody for at least a good 6 months. You need to do plenty of research on all of the theist arguments and debate with people online until you have it down to a repetitive system. study study study. You said you were new and if you were to encounter any new questions about atheism you haven't heard before, your thinking on the spot may not accurately reflect the best answer and people could think they have you even though you will go research it later.
start with these:
http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

memorize the common arguments on both sides and how to recognize fallacies before you start debating. It's important.
Comment by Johnny on December 28, 2009 at 11:48am
again, Tommy is just as educated as I. We both grew up in one of the best school districts in america, even taking AP history classes, I believe, and he went all the way through high school with me and is in college now.

i don't know why he is just so fucking stupid but he LEARNED these things. he just decided to shove them out of his mind because his cognitive dissonance is SO strong that he can't bear to hold to beliefs (america was founded on slavery, america is the greatest country in history).

it just makes you shake your head even more... what an idiot.
Comment by Stump Parrish on December 28, 2009 at 1:34am
I would say that Tommy would never admit to being uneducated, his remarks only serve to reinforce my statement. I would venture to guess that he has never learned how to think for himself. He is repeating that which has been drilled into his head from birth. I cannot honestly blame him for his ignorance. What most religious people refuse to believe or consider is that if, Tommy had been born in Iraq, He would have been an Islamic terrorist instead of a Christian terrorist. Couple that with the belief that only Muslims have the abilility to become terrorists and you have the justification for abortion clinics bombings.

This is a personal quote that I am Quite proud of..."Be it an abortion clinic or the twin towers, a terrorist is still a terrorist, only their god changes.

I have yet to receive an intelligent response to this statemet from a christian. The t shirt that that garners the next most ignorant responses is ...If the fetus you save is born gay , will you still fight for it's rights. The one thing that bothers me the most about religion is, why are most religious people the most intollerant people on this planet. All religions preach tolerance and yet not one of them practice it. The only thing I see missing from the christian profession of tolerance is the christians. This additude toward our fellow man is a direct reflection on the self serving belief that Christ is the only get out of hell card from the game of moral monopoly.

"True, good point. I should clarify that it's when someone like Tommy seems to promote himself as educated-all-American, that's when the spelling and grammar becomes telling and quite annoying." Tommy is not presenting himself as a as an educated all American. He actually believes this. I don't think it is laziness, it is a direct result of religion's control over the education of the ignorant masses in the south.

My next project is to contact a local PBS station that deals with the minority opinions in South Carolina and find out if they are willing to present the opinions of the atheists. To date they have dealt with the black opinions in my state. If they are actually intersested in the minority opinion, there is no way they can avoid my questions. If I get the chance to present my opinions and questions, I am counting on my friends on nexus to offer some ideas.
Comment by Jo Jerome on December 27, 2009 at 4:32pm
--> Stump
True, good point. I should clarify that it's when someone like Tommy seems to promote himself as educated-all-American, that's when the spelling and grammar becomes telling and quite annoying. There are indeed some people out there who are dyslexic, high-functioning-dysfunctional, etc.

I've found the other 95% of the time it's a sign of laziness. I've had friends and family tell me anything from "I'm not in school right now so why does my spelling matter?" to "I don't have time for that" to making fun of me for being the smart one. Often, the telling sign is when the spelling and grammar deteriorate proportional to the tone of the conversation. The angrier the person gets the less they proofread. That tells me they know how but choose not to.

Poor strategy to coming across as knowledgeable on the web.

- Jo; who just found a mistake I made in my original reply. ;-)
Comment by Johnny on December 27, 2009 at 10:57am
yes, it's hard to learn at first that personal insults don't belong in intellgent debate. They should be reserved for jokes among like minded friends. Glad you enjoyed it, Stump.

I bet you're still educated enough to know that the US had slavery though ;)
Comment by Stump Parrish on December 27, 2009 at 1:51am
Thanks for sharing this with me. I learned something about myself and saw a mistake I am guilty of making. I am new to this arena of debating and am guilty of being a little too much like Tommy at times. I would like to stress A LITTLE, lol. I think I need to tone down the anger provoking statements I tend to make at times. Whether done consiously or not, once I get my opponents anger up, all chances of getting my point across are gone.
to the comment by Jo Jerome "Tommy's grasp of spelling and grammar support my suspicions about his education level." I will say this, an individuals level of education is not always a true indication of their intelligence. My spelling and grammar are a direct reflection of the school systems in the south that I attended in the 70's. I dropped out of school in the 10th grade and much of this had to do with boredom and a lack of teachers that actually taught or wanted to teach anyone. I have always had a love of reading and in the 10th grade I signed up for a reading class with great anticipation. This class was a last ditch effort by my high school to teach students how to read. They also taught us how to balance a checkbook and other fascinating subjects. There were other factors involved with my decision to drop out of school however, these are of a personal nature and have no bearing on the conversation. I feel that judging all people based on their grammar and spelling abilities is another example of a prejudice mind. I am often hit with this type of comment and I can't help but wonder why. My arguements are not even considered due to my lack of formal training. Again thanks to everyone on this site, and the things I am learning about myself.
Comment by Johnny on December 27, 2009 at 12:25am
oh GW being bush in hindsight... peraps that wasn't clear lol
Comment by Johnny on December 7, 2009 at 6:30pm
*who was
Comment by Johnny on December 7, 2009 at 6:29pm
not likely. he's a fat, rich, lazy snob that thinks that people like him. he was unanimously disliked by everyone in my high school.

He thinks that GW was one of the best presidents of all time....WTF.
Comment by Ida on December 7, 2009 at 5:13pm
Bravo! I hope he opened a book after you pwned him :)

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