Atheists can’t provide a sound basis for their morality.

…it’s the kinder gentler version of “atheists can’t be moral,” which is a common theme among Christian apologists. To be sure, some folks go back and forth between the two messages, but at least some apologists do seem to keep a clear distinction between the claim that atheists cannot be moral and the claim that whatever morals we may have, we simply cannot justify them in rational terms.

More here: https://northierthanthou.com/2016/10/05/good-without-an-apology13736/

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Comment by Idaho Spud on October 15, 2016 at 11:33am

I agree with Glen R and Bertold.

Comment by Bertold Brautigan on October 10, 2016 at 5:56pm

I agree 100% Glen. The end of their presumptuous co-opting of morality is way overdue, and we've got nothing to prove.

Comment by Frankie Dapper on October 10, 2016 at 3:58pm

What pisses me off is that so many atheists fall for the notion that they have to prove they can be moral without religion. The question is whether theists can be moral with it. Equating morality with religion is the default position. Well fuck that and the horse it rode in on.

The real issue is whether theists can be moral with it because the ethics of religion are tendentious and inure to the benefit of the haves. So to follow the dictates of theism is to be a dick. And yet theists often have atheists defending themselves.

Comment by Daniel W on October 7, 2016 at 1:39pm

When posting with the goal of directing traffic to your website, it would gd courteous and considerate to the members of the Atheist Nexus community to be a paid member.  I dont see a badge - has there been a delay in that?  It does not cost much to contribute, and doing so means that when you post with a link and no other interaction, you are not just parasitizing this community.

Comment by Michael Penn on October 7, 2016 at 7:53am

Just this morning a theist chided me for wanting to live by my own dictates. Certainly, I agreed with him. He wants to "live by his handbook." Who am I to know, because new cars even come with a handbook!  LOL

Comment by Loren Miller on October 7, 2016 at 7:45am

Morality is one of the repeating themes of the whole theist-atheist contretemps and among the most foolish of them.  When a theist says that a deity is required to know morality it is as much as to say that we can't figure it out for ourselves, that humankind must necessarily either extinguish itself or live in relative chaos without some external referent to let us know how to conduct our lives.

The fact is that morality is a survival mechanism, which balances the well being individual with the group he or she lives in.  The very fact that there were cultures and civilizations which were successful before the 10 commandments were penned is considerable evidence to belie any assertion regarding the need for a god to establish morality.

Honestly, this is one I wish we could move on from, because like Pascal's Wager to those who host The Atheist Experience, it's gotten more than a little old.

Comment by Michael Penn on October 7, 2016 at 7:02am

I've said it many times before but will try today in other words. Your morality comes from the structure of the society that you live in. This is the basic idea and shows also that even morality is always in flux and subject to change. Morality (just like laws) is often slightly different in other cultures and other societies. Look around you and you see this all over the world in more primitive of more advanced cultures or society.

If a god "is writing his morality on your heart" then there must be several gods involved. This leaves the ignorant "god writers" believing that you cannot be moral until you convert to their religion and their god. Such an idea is preposterous!

Spend a little time in other countries and cultures and you easily see that many things are much different than how you were raised and taught. The basics boil down to the fact that if you do not want to be poked in the eye, then do not poke others in the eye. Some cultures and societies then go on into situations in which you can poke someone in the eye and the reasons all vary and they are much different.

For a god to give mankind morality that said and given morality would have to all be the same.

Comment by Compelledunbeliever on October 6, 2016 at 8:13pm

Ok so your site looks interesting. Hope to see you on this site more often.

Comment by Grinning Cat on October 6, 2016 at 12:51pm

My first reaction reading the quote: as if the apologists can rationally justify their belief in an invisible god, whose effect on the world is indistinguishable from coincidence, wishful thinking, and the actions of believers.

From the article: (ellipses and bolding are mine)

...this theme... reverses the point of morality... I might do right by my neighbor, so the story goes, but I don’t really know why I should do so.

And thus doing right by my neighbor becomes just a little less important.

Second, this theme seems to produce a kind of moral hierarchy... those of us who are merely moral (at best) are just a little less than those that know why we should be so...

...it isn’t even a claim that privileges the perspectives of priests and pastors, much less the average everyday believer. It is a claim that privileges the perspectives of apologists... it is up to the smart people who defend the faith to do the real work of ethics. The rest of us, believer and unbeliever alike can be moral, sure, but our morality will always be missing something.

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