Goodbye Yellow Brick Road (My Exit Interview)

Well it's time to move on to more interesting and rewarding activities, but my time here has been well spent. I've learned many things, among them, that many atheists are just as ignorant and uninterested in the reality and history of their world-view as are their theist counterparts, they just happened to fall off on the correct side of the fence. I've also learned that I more enjoy talking to people who disagree with me and will put up a fight, than to those who agree with me most of the time, but who shrink like mice at the slightest sign of discord. But most of all, I've come to understand that a community of atheists that encourages a mentality of tolerance to the religion that is oppressing them, through a simplistic type of group think, is a more potent force for the continued existence of that religion, than anything the church itself could ever dream of doing. So thanks for the info, but you will forgive me, won't you, while I go off and try to change minds, while you all create your own little fantasy world, as divorced from the reality of the real one, as any ever created by a theist.


P.S. I will check back from time to time to pick up messages and to see if perhaps the site can grow a pair of balls and stop pacifying those that it should be inspiring.

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Comment by Kozz on January 31, 2009 at 11:33pm
The following is the complete text of a comment sent to me by Kristy. Rather than post both it, and my response, I have combined the two for easy reading.

Kristy said: "Kozz, You really have to be kidding. The quote from Shakespeare refers to a famous death scene in which Bottom, saying he is going to kill himself (i.e. leave), drags it out, on and on and on and on interminably. That was the point, that you said you were going to leave and then, like Bottom, just kept making an 'ass' of yourself in order to stay in the spotlight. It was a pretty simple analogy."

Anyone can quote from something someone else has not seen K. In this particular case you picked something that said the word "die" or "dead" no less than 10 times in about as many lines. But even if I had thought, to the exclusion of all else, that you were wishing me to literally die I don't think it would have been stupid as you imply, and the fact that you think it would say more about you than about me. But indeed, I actually didn't think this was what you intended, which is why I added the line "In one form or another". Did you miss that? Can you think of a reason for it being there? No I didn't mean by gunshot or stabbing. Yes that's right, I was including all the ways in which you could have possibly meant it, such as dead to you, or the end of my stay here, etc etc. The real point is I didn't care what you meant by it, but to choose something with the words die and dead 10 times when there are a thousand other ways to say what you say you meant, I think almost anyone could infer your real meaning, while you also maintain plausible deniability.

Kristy Said: "The irony in this blog, Kozz, is that you have proven our point. The ridicule thrown at you by Felch has done nothing to change your mind (and it wasn't intended to - it was intended to prove his). The only thing it has done is put you on the defensive, get you angry, and entrenched you in your indefensible position even more. You bought right into it."

Even if I believed that this was all a setup, which even if my IQ was 50 points lower I wouldn't(and I'm certain no one else would either), you simply make no point with this statement, do you not understand that? For your statement to make sense we have to assume two things. First that my position is as untenable as the position of a theist. Considering that we all know that they have no position at all, this is impossible.

Secondly you would have to assume that if you had tried to only reason with me, that I would have then changed my position. Well first of all I can assure you that this would not happen since I am beyond any reasonable doubt, sure of my position, and secondly, when we had this discussion earlier in another forum, it ended with us agreeing to disagree. So using your logic reason didn't work and ridicule didn't work, therefore ridicule must not work on anything. This is logic simply beyond compare, and BTW I'm also not angry, but you sure are, aren't you?.

Kristy said: "The piece of gentle ridicule I threw in, to test your reaction, resulted in you completely misreading the reference and blowing it out of all proportion. This is exactly what Christians do when ridiculed - they become completely unreasonable and start to read things into your arguments that are simply not there."

Yes that gentle piece of ridicule. You mean the one with die and dead 10 times right? And then you say I blew it all out of proportion. Now who is blowing what out of proportions? I didn't even respond to this comment when it was posted, and only said one line about it to another person, which was something like "Kristy wishing me to die, In one form or another" . Yes i certainly blew that all out of proportion. And yes we are all sure you threw it in to test my reactions. Really we are. Wow.

Kristy said: "Just think about how you feel now towards Felch and me. That is how Christians feel when confronted with ridicule."

You are very fond of unsupported assumptions. This again assumes that your point is so much more valid than mine, as it is with a theist vs. atheist, but it isn't in fact it is not, it is very nearly the other way around, Your own contention are without a doubt, much weaker than my own, considering mine are endoresed by nearly every single well known atheist on the planet. So how I feel about people ridiculing me about a point they have, which simply holds no water, is really irrelevant, but if you simply must know it is a mix of pity and contempt.

Kristy said: "I am always happy to have my mind changed if someone can provide credible evidence for their position. You have not done this. I have suggested a really simple way in which you can take a 'straw poll' of deconverts here on Nexus, but you have no interest in getting evidence, you just want to throw a tantrum like a five year old who isn't getting their own way."

You do realize that a poll of this type has absolutely no scientific relevance of any kind don't you and in fact it is utterly and absolutely meaningless. We would have to take into consideration exactly who these people were , what the question was they were asked, whether the way they answered could be in any way influenced by other factors, were the numbers even close to being sufficient for a valid result, and on and on. But besides this, I have no doubt that there are people that have been deconverted by dawkins book, but I also have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that if he hadn't put ridcule on the cover, it would have never ended up in any of their hands of over 1.5 million people. This is something you simply can't compute. The fact that you can't understand how significant it was to name a book in such a way, just indicates to me that you have no understanding whatsoever of what is really driving all this interest in atheist. People like Pat Condell getting up and telling it like it is, gets otheres to say damn right, I'm tired of being run over. Why don't you tell us all how you feel about Pat Kristy. We would all love to know.

Kristy Said: "Go away and show us you can actually do some real research and back up your argument."

: "In the meantime, I'll leave you with some quotes from deconverts taken from my own research for a paper on atheists and the internt:":

I deleted five completely and utterly meaningless quotes from here for readability but if you would like to see them go here. But I believe I can summarize these quotes in a single line right here it would go something like this. " I went on the internet and found some sites and they really helped me to deconvert". Go ahead go look at them yourself in the link. Yes this is research proving beyond any reasonable doubt at all that ridicule does not work.... at least to Kristy. What these people don't even mention is what made them look on the internet in the first place, could it be the growing exicement of book like the God Delusion or God is not great. or perhaps the Religulous movie trailer playing on television, or could they even identify what made them start looking at all. Or is the reason more likely that someone said "hey I don't think god exists because there is evil in the world". Of course anyone with an interest in the truth and a reasonable intellect will deconvert quite easily if they begin to investigate. In fact a person at this stage really is deconverted already. What is also missing is where they actually went on the internet. Could it have been on youtube, where videos meant to ridicule are ubiquitous, or on the majority of Atheist web sites that almost all have one form or another of ridicule on them. No to Kristy it simply must have been the few that have no ridicule on them at all.

I'll put the 68,000 subscribers, (and thats just subscribers by the way) and the 2.4 million channel views of Pat Condell up against these 5 meaningless quotes any time. We can also add the explicet endorsement of Pat by Richard Dawkins, and the statements by Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens specifically urging Atheists to rock the boat and to Criticize religion in the harshest ways. I've already put a video of Dawkins recommending this in these comments.

Now let me leave YOU with some quotes that I found in about 2 minutes from Sam Harris using the type of ridicule I recommend. Perhaps you should send him a letter and recommend he find a nicer way to put it.

Sam Harris:

"It is merely an accident of history that it is considered normal in our society to believe that the Creator of the universe can hear your thoughts while it is demonstrative of mental illness to believe that he is communicating with you by having the rain tap in Morse code on your bedroom window"

"It is difficult to imagine a set of beliefs more suggestive of mental illness than those that lie at the heart of many of our religious traditions"

"The danger of religious faith is that it allows otherwise normal human beings to reap the fruits of madness and consider them holy."

"Religious faith is the one species of human ignorance that will not admit of even the possibility of correction"

"We must find our way to a time when faith, without evidence, disgraces anyone who would claim it."(why would they be disgraced, people would think them mad or laugh at them)

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings"

"[T]he very ideal of religious tolerance—born of the notion that every human being should be free to believe whatever he wants about God—is one of the principal forces driving us toward the abyss."
Comment by Kozz on January 31, 2009 at 7:04pm
Hal said: "There is so much out there on Youtube to enjoy and there are games Youtube is playing too against atheists. Videos are removed very easily on just a few complaints."

I've definitely watched my share, but never created a channel because i don't create content, but I suppose it would be handy way to save the good ones. I probably will make one in the near future. I know about the bannings, and Pat's might be the most famous one, but it didn't last thanks to his numerous atheist fans;).

I live in a similar town myself. A Christian oasis with a church on every corner, but the majority of Christians here, although they are numerous, are definitely a different breed from some place like the bible belt.

Hal said: "I have on order, the Darwin Tshirt with the monkey chicken fish creature on it and plan on wearing it on Feb 12.... Do I dare..... ( I will bring a change of shirt jsut in case) small steps."

hehe I love that. You are definitely living on the edge in an environment like that ;) Let me know how it goes with the t-shirt!

Also I did get your other comment with the link, but didn't post it. It did however inspire me to create a new group called Resist Groupthink. I noticed that Priestess K was already there mentioning BROTHER Richard and encouraging everyone to hold hands and sing kumbaiya and that did it. Group created. I know however that you may not share my views on this and it wasn't your intention, but that was the result.

Comment by Kozz on January 31, 2009 at 6:08pm
"I do have fear of employment issues if I do"

I hear ya... Nice to live in a free country isn't it? Quite the threat they hold over so may. scary, but I can almost imagine being told by someone here "Well at least they don't burn us at the stake any more, quit complaining" ;)

I just went and checked out your youtube channel and there I see sitting before me a gem I had never seen before. Dawkins on Bill Mahr, does it get better? I don't know how I could have missed it before but a big thanks, I enjoyed it.

If I do start a channel I will send it along, In the mean time I'll watch a few more of yours, if the first was a gem what other treasure awaits?

I'll be in touch,

Comment by Kozz on January 31, 2009 at 5:05pm
We have very different ideas of family. Mine would be a place where anyone could voice their opinion openly, without fear of rejection.

Yours can only be that family is a place to keep your mouth shut, don't talk about controversial subjects, or you will no longer be loved.

Sounds a little like the life of a theist to me. Don't stop believin' or you're out of the loop.

Was it really your intention to portray this as a normal family?

As for the cold, I have plenty of truth and beauty to keep me warm, but thanks.
Comment by Kozz on January 31, 2009 at 4:16pm

I think there is enough "bashing" to go around. Have you read the posts here? and all from people who think we should not use any form of ridicule in our discussions with theists. If this isn't a wake up call for anyone paying attention it should be. From the crude, low brow attacks of felch, to the wishs for my death, in one form or another, by the poem recited by Kristy, a feast of hate from these former theists, who advocate we do nothing even approaching this to our repressors. As hypocritical as any theist you would likely be able to find anywhere.

I also find it extremely interesting that no one could bring themselves to criticize any of felchs simplistic, illogical and hate filled rants, but could then turn around and call me a horrible militant atheist because I am advocating only what every single one of the big four also advocate, among many others, which is ridicule coupled with reason. How has this become such a despised view in this small little club? It should provide a clue to just how lost in it's own groupthink this site has already become. I can only assume this is because there are many atheists who also enjoy being sheep, and are willing to follow the voice from above, even if this voice is the simplistic mutterings of former theists, who have apparently no real understanding of Atheism at all.

On a lighter note, I'm at least glad to hear your a fan of Pat's. The guy has a gift, and is having an impact. It would be difficult to make the truth more biting. But Pat would be despised by the dominant ideology here. Even though he is openly supported by people like Dawkins and Harris, who advocate his approach, Yet these same people hold up Dawkins and Harris reasoned sides as the way to go, apparently having never read their books, or listened to their debates,because if they would have, they would know, both men advocate criticizing religion in the very harshest ways possible, and also use ridicule quite a bit themselves. (of course Hitchens also advocates this approach, but I don't think I need to tell anyone that ;) )

One more point. Any atheist group that poses itself as a sancuary from debate, should be wary of this feeling carrying over to the group itself. This is, after all, how new churches are born. People join for companionship, but soon any rational opposition to the status quo is frowned upon, while certain people actively propagate the views that the church would like everyone to hold. This has been, so far, as close to a church of Atheism, as I have seen in my life.
Comment by Kozz on January 31, 2009 at 1:19pm
Oh and just one more thing, I just want to thank A|N for showing me just how ignorant Atheists can also be. I can see now I had a somewhat lopsided view. There are clearly as many Atheists that are as hopelessly lost as any theist I have ever met. Their blind faith in god, now simply replaced with blind faith in any number of other concepts or ideas. It's a little sad to see this, but on the other hand, it provides me with a whole new understanding of theism.

I've always known of course that there were atheists like this, but I had more always thought of them as exceptions to the rule, because by and large, most Atheists I have talked to have a thirst for all truth, and have a good grasp of the fundamental concepts of Atheism, and the proven methods of furthering it's cause. But this site provides a collection point, it seems, of all those atheists, who still crave the confirmation of what they are by others, and this, by it's very nature, seems to draw those least likely to fully comprehend what it is to be Atheist. Whether it be young people who just have not had time to accumulate the knowledge necessary, or whether it is former theists who still have deep Christian core values that simply work against the Atheist movement. Both these groups have more of a need for this type of site, and is probably why they make up such a large percentage of A|N.

Hey bad news everyone, I may not leave after all. There is a need for another voice in opposition here to the big mouth of Kristyv, and other radical nonradicals, who seems to spend every waking moment, waiting to pounce on anyone that disagrees with her simplistic ideologies. Ideologies that are as damaging to Atheism as anything pumped out of the churches.

So yeah maybe I'll stay. If you see a post you'll know your worst fears have come true.

Comment by Kozz on January 31, 2009 at 12:27pm
felch you poor poor guy,

can you not see you're obsessed with me? Can you not see that you are making a fool of yourself to everyone within earshot of these posts, and that your rants against me are simply a projection of the same anger you feel towards yourself. Psych 101 dude, have you taken it? Believe me, if it's not apparent to you, it is to everyone else. You have emotional problems, and you need to seek counseling.

But now, instead of your these problems, and your general lack of intelligence just being entertaining, you are now posting items that have no basis in reality. I don't know whether it was your lack of competence or simply that you are now making things up now, but I have never heard of the institutions you mention, and when you start posting things that are simply not true, that is where i draw the line. I didn't even care when you posted my private information in the blog, because this information, is intentionally easily found simply by following the links from this page. But I'm afraid your rather obvious deep seated hatred, and emotional problems, have now caused you to resort to making things up, and that is simpy not acceptable.

As a result I have had to now limit comments on this page to moderated comments only, But have no fear if you would ever like to make a post that that is not a rant, and contains some intelligible language, I will be glad to post it. But in lieu of this, perhaps you can start a whole blog series on your own page, all about me, however be aware that if it's fiction you should label it as such, because even Australia has libel laws. So it really has been nice knowing one of the less fortunate of our species, but now I'm afraid I have to severe our relationship for your own good.

Try to enjoy the rest of your life felch. (even such as it is).
Comment by Kozz on January 30, 2009 at 11:31pm
Looks like you're the lonely one, You keep coming back. it's my blog isn't it? figure it out airhead
Comment by Kozz on January 30, 2009 at 8:12pm
poor felch you're just too easy. So you haven't embarrassed your compadres enough yet? Ok, then let's get started.

first sentence
"Despite all the promises to leave and repeated "I won't say another word on the matter"'s, you're still here"

Actually I never said such a thing, go ahead and look for yourself, I'll wait......... Yeah I know you didn't find it? I'm sorry, but perhaps when you read things you can read what they say, and try not to let those little demons in your head confuse you.

second sentence
"can't keep your mouth shut, despite the foot wedged deep down your throat."

Let's see I've heard of a frog in your throat, and a foot up your ass, but a foot in the throat. HeHe, only you felch!!!! You da man! Those demons again huh?

third sentence
"Several commentators are not at all derisive, they're surgically correct"

Just a literary point here felch, usually in a sentence such as this, "derisive" and "surgically correct" would be comparative in some way, and not totally unrelated as is the case here. A good grade school English text should do the trick though.

forth sentence
"you are a juvenile attention whore with an out of control ego and delusions of an intellect that simply isn't up to scratch"

Hey that's a little better than most of your ridicule. I'll give it a 4 out of 10. Let's have a look at your greatest hits. Score listed after each.

"Fuck off to them and do your whining there. Asshole." a 2

"breast-beating, holier-than-thou super-atheist that soiled his nappies here." Ok you squeaked out a 4 "

"Just live up to your word and piss off." Sorry just a 1

"Look Ma ! A flying pig !" A 6 of 10. way to go!

sixth sentence
"and you absolutely must have the last word at any cost. Like any 5 year old."

Please no one tell felch that he is the one who had to chime in on someone else's blog to have the last word, which by definition means that his insult could only apply to himself. Don't you tell him though. It would break his little heart that he managed to screw up every, single line in such a short post, and embarrass his contemporaries once again.

Last line
"Now one more time - live up to your promise and fuck off."

We've been over this, and I'm afraid you have no control over it. Go lie down in a quiet place, close your eyes, clear your head, then think through it over carefully. Then I trust you will then understand what I am telling you. You're such a "futon for punishment". That's one's for you felch.
Comment by Kozz on January 30, 2009 at 6:07pm
Please do!



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