I can't laugh at this, it makes me too angry

In Crawford,Tx  an 11 year old girl was gang raped by 18 adult men. I call them adult men because I'm sorry, if you are a young man(age 16) and you willingly rape an 11 year old girl, you are now an adult.


What makes me angry is the fact that there are honestly people playing the race card. An 11 year old girl has been brutally raped, and people are just so selfish and self-important that they just HAVE to remove the responsibility that is firmly on the correct shoulders, and put it on the girl's shoulders.


An 11 year old.Because when a rape/molestation occurs, we blame the victim. It's an easy course of action, right? Because one little girl could not only turn on a group of 18 men, but sit there and allow herself to be treated in such a manner. 


"But, she was dressed like an older woman. It wasn't their fault they thought she was older."


WTF?! She's 11, not 21. Yes, if you slap makeup and mini-skirts on an 11 year old.....


She'll still look like a little kid, or more kid than adult. There is a roundness in the face, a narrowness of the hips which should be a hint "This girl is not fully mature physically, walk the eff away."


But, I'll give the people this. Alright, so she looked older than her real age.


So, when does it ever appear to be a great idea to take ANY woman who dresses "unseemly" and do something like that to her?


Here's a hint: Never.


If the thought occurs to you or to even to your friends "Hey, it's a ho...let's all have our way with her.", please, just walk away. Because unless a grown woman(that is a woman who is 18 and older) gives consent to EVERY person there, it's rape.


Maybe, as an ex-friend said, my views on child rape/sex and rape in general are harsh, but if consent was not given(or not capable of being given in the case of the mentally infirm or children) then it's rape.


Plain and simple. What really disgusts me is that an actual town is being ripped apart by this, because many of the family(and friends) are more worried about the rapists being "affected negatively" or "harmed" than the hell that's been unleashed on that little girl.


Because it is very much hell they've unleashed on(and in her). If any of them have STDs, she will have them because of the tears in her vagina(and other mucus lined places) leave her open to that. The fear that she will have of Black men in general will be so bad, she might attempt ways to avoid them. Her view on herself will change, mutate even, to that view that her molesters held: that she is just her vagina, something to be used and then thrown away. She is a disposable girl.


When and if she goes to school, she will be bullied because people rather lash out at the victim instead of help. Those who will try or want to help, will have a long road ahead of them. She might regress a bit in behavior. Night terrors, panic attacks, and fits of rage will be a daily problem. And daily she'll have to wake up with that loathing inside of her. She may say or hint at the storm within, or she might silently suffer through it.


Her view on men in general will shift, causing her to believe they are to be feared and hated. I could go on and on, but those personality changes and such will depend on how she was and how she is now.


Her only salvation will be medical care, therapy(group and individual), and  love/patience/understanding from family and friends.


I would love it if the newspapers and news stations would stop painting her as some type of lolita. She was 11. The way she was dressed, I am sad to say, did nothing to affect her rapists. It is only a method of justification so they can sleep at night. Rapists don't go after a woman or a man from horniness, they go after them because they appear weak. And like the predator they are, they attack, not caring what happens.

And I would love it even more if the Black parishners would stop sitting here and acting so damned shocked. Child molestation and rape occurs everywhere, from the barrio to the penthouses. They all depend on someone being victimized and people keeping secrets. Yes, it is awful that a minority is being known for harming someone, but you know what? That was THEIR action that THEY have to take responsibility for. Not the entire black "race". So get over yourselves please.


And that Quarnell X guy? He disgusts me. To sit there and blame the victim doesn't make you a man. It makes you an idiot facilitating a group of cowards. So excuse me if I don't call you "brother".


And the woman in Florida who wants to enforce a dress code because the 11-year "dressed like a 21 year old prostitute" needs to slow her roll. First, dressing like a "prostitute" does not mean "please rape me" it might mean "I don't have fashion sense" or "I really think I look cute!" but not "rape me". I don't know if you get off on blaming the victim....


But stop it.


It's easy to blame the victim, even if she looks like she "deserves it". But rape is rape. And no woman or girl should be told she was to blame, she brought it on herself, or that she deserved it. To look in a person's eyes shows a lack of compassion and character that is on par with Pol Pot.


It's interesting that I'm making a Pol Pot reference in a subject like this, but I feel strongly about it.


Because that type of crap happens all the time.

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Comment by Prog Rock Girl on April 13, 2011 at 9:32am

No, I don't think your reactions to rape are too strong. I read the article about this too and the language implied that the men were somehow victimized..."how could they be drawn into this" (as if they had no control, "this will haunt them all their lives" (those poor victims) "where was the girl's parents" (oh, now her parent is to blame?) and mentions of how she dressed.


I don't know anything about the race card in this case. I do know that the "race card" has been played in cases of Muslims gang-raping non-Muslims..."it's a racist lie" and all that.


More importantly, even if she does dress like an adult, um, it's not legal to rape an adult either!


The article I read was in the freaking New York Times. To include the quotes from this victim-blaming town, it should have been an editorial about how this girl was brutally raped and the town is more concerned about the trauma that the rapists went through. It's a sad commentary.

Comment by Noah Petersen on April 13, 2011 at 7:34am
If wanting to kill Glenn Beck is wrong, I don't want to be right.
Comment by Noah Petersen on April 13, 2011 at 3:01am

It's good to know we have no control over our actions.  Some day when I finally snap and go on a killing spree, I'm going to make all of my targets pedophiles.  I'll be no more able to control my desire to murder than they are able to control their urges.  Here's to you sex offenders!  Enjoy waht little life you have left.  If only we had free will I'd be able to keep myself from murdering all of you, but no such luck.

Comment by Grace Fitzpatrick on April 12, 2011 at 1:39pm

John C., I've known men who were raped nine ways from Tuesday - usually by other men, but sometimes by women.   I have known plenty of men whose lives were destroyed by rape - made worse, because they did not have anyone to turn to for support and the shame of not being able to stop it from happening.   Old people, infants and small children are often the victims of rape.  Were they just being too sexy too?


Yes, someone is to blame when rape happens.  The rapist and no one else.  Babies and small children do not do anything in the least sexy.  IMO, boys and girls are raped at about the same rate, however, IMO shame keeps boys from reporting it as often as girls do.  Nature does make a person a rapist.  Rape is a crime of power and aggression not excess of sexual desire.  It is from a desire to completely dominate the other person. 


Besides, if your tastes run towards women, there are plenty of willing women out there.  From what I can see, women are more willing than ever to have casual sex.  I don't really get all this "hooking up" stuff, but there are women out there who have sex like in the old days (back in the 80s) as readily as we used to say "yes" to would you like to dance?  I don't get it, but that's the way it is.  She may not be pretty, or slim, or young or wealthy or if you're really not much yourself, especially clean, but they are out there.  All women really want is to be treated nice - younger women may want money, etc, but once a woman is headed down the slope (of not being so pretty and young) and she isn't a millionaire, she hasn't held together like Demi Moore, or she wasn't treated that great by that Tom Cruise type or he dumped her for a younger, prettier model, she just wants to be treated nice.  If a guy of a pleasant personality and a holding a job can't find a woman, he just needs to expand his possibilities and he will find someone.   I don't buy that nature drives men to rape at all.  We're not dogs, we can control ourselves. 


Nature certainly doesn't drive people to rape children, elderly people and infants.  And yet, they are often the victims of rape - probably even more often than adult women, because they are so helpless.  An adult woman can fight back or might even carry a gun or other weapon.  It's rare to find the baby or old granny who knows and is able to execute tae kwan do.  I know more people who have been raped as children than as adults.  Rape is the fault of the rapist.  End of story.  It is never, ever not in a million years the victim's fault. 


Nature says when you got to go, you got to go, do people normally whip it out and pee in public?  Would it be okay if they did?  The need to use the bathroom is a strong, biological urge and yet almost 100% of people do not drop trowel in public.  Animals do all the time.  It's a strong biological urge.  Millions upon millions of years of evolution say when you have to go, go, and yet people control this and they teach their children to, as well.


People can control their biological urges and IMO the vast majority of them do.  You wouldn't pee on someone's couch,  don't rape them either.  It's as simple as that. 

Comment by John Camilli on April 12, 2011 at 6:40am

Also, John D (and I have to admit I'm adding this now because I started my last response after I had only read half of your last post), I don't quite think it's accurate to say that our behaviors are a result of our feelings. I think it's more accurate to say that our behaviors and feelings are a result of how nature operates. Sometimes thoughts precede actions, and sometimes actions precede thoughts. I do think they are intertwined phenomena, but assuming that thoughts cause actions is, I think, the fallacy that people make in believing in freewill. They believe our control over reality is one sided; that a thought originates in their head and becomes reality through their actions. But thoughts don't just appear in our heads out of nowhere; they are the results of our experiences.


I can't simply decide that I will behave in a completely novel way; that thought has to come from somehwere; that behavior has to come from somewhere. It has to be caused, and since I am not the maker of reality, it would not have been caused by me.

Comment by John Camilli on April 12, 2011 at 6:27am

Grace, that really wasn't a good point at all. Women don't rape men for their attire partially because of the physical strength disparity, but mostly because women do not have the samed programmed reactions for sex that men have. It has never been an evolutionary imparative for human women to be sexually aggressive. What would be the point of evolving that mechanism in a creature that cannot procreate for at least nine months at a time? It's a really silly assertion you just made.


Hypothetically, if a bunch of women and a bunch of men went around topless, which do you think would cause the bigger reaction? It's a no-brainer to answer that, obviously, but why? It's because men are full of testerone, and other mechanisms which have evolved to make them react more strongly. You are trying to assert that laws should be equivalent for men and women because men and women are the same, but we are obviously not the same, and realistic laws would have to reflect that.


As for you, Noah, you are misinterpretting, or jsut not reading thoroughly. No one here has said that the rape was the girl's fault. I'm actually saying it's nobody's fault. There are causes to why it happens, but there is not blame to be placed because humans are just machines that operate according to principal. The girl had no real choice of how to dress, just as the men had no real choice of whether to rape her. I know that sounds horrific to most people, but until you can explain how human thoughts interrupts causality, and is not just a result of it, I'll be sticking to my logic.


John D, your logic does not hold water, to me. How can determinism not be absolute? Do you not think that every interraction has an equivalent reaction? Do you think energy and matter are just created and destroyed at random? There is no evidence for that, and humans have been looking for it for a very long time, because it is the crux of whether or not we have freewill, which most people would liek to believe we do. However, there is plenty, plenty, plenty of evidence that things act causally; that every effect has a cause, so how is it that human thoughts and actions could defy that principal. None of our actions are motivated by us. They are motivated by nature, of which we are made, and which may have existed infinitely longer than us. All my words, thoughts and actions are causally pre-determined. The precursors to them have existed for much longer than I have, if not forever. Whether or not I ever rape a girl is already determined. And I may hope that I never do, but I will not be able to change whether or not it happens. If the movements of nature add up to me raping a girl, I will have no more choice about it than she does. It's the same for everybody, and everything they do or don't do. I think people are only able to hate and place blame ebcause they don't really understand that 'every effect has a cause' means that we don't have control over our actions. We are not the prime mover, only parts already in motion.

Comment by Valles Marineris on March 24, 2011 at 8:53pm
Great point Grace. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Comment by Noah Petersen on March 24, 2011 at 4:13pm

Wow...just wow.  I've never understood rape in general, but the idea that an underage girl could be in any way responsible?


I'd put a bullet in these men if the 11 year old was consenting to the sex.  There is a HUGE difference betweeen a 16 year old girl having sex with her 19 year old boyfriend and what I would consider statutory rape, but rape is rape. 

Comment by Grace Fitzpatrick on March 24, 2011 at 3:31pm

She's 11 years old.  If you don't like her clothes, blame her parents, not her.  She lives in their house and abides by their rules.  As for genetics, men go around topless all the time.  Flashing their gleaming, sexy muscles around for everyone to see.  And yet, you very seldom hear about these men getting raped - by women or other men. 


Somehow the vast majority of gay and straight men and women manage to control their animal urges.  And there are laws on women's attire.  As a woman, I can't go topless whenever I want like men can.  I can't just work out in my yard topless.  I can't go to work topless.  But men can go topless whenever they like and never have a moments concern about being arrested.  


And what about those pants men wear?  Oftentimes, when a man bends down, I can not only see some crack, I can see whole bottom.  Now, I do not actually find this sexy, but if I did, would it be okay for me to just, you know, take full advantage, because he was showing me his bottom?  I mean,  he came to my house to work on xyz and he exposed his bottom to me.  Obviously, he was sending out a message. 


Men go around wearing their pants hanging down with a significant amount of underwear showing.   Again, not something that I find sexy, but if I did, would showing me their underpants be a sign they were willing to have sex with me?  Because I never show my underpants to anyone unless I'm doing laundry or I have a plan. 


By the logic that people cannot control their animal instincts, construction workers should get raped all the time.  After all, they go around topless in public where anyone driving by can see their sweaty, half naked (sometimes more if they are wearing ill fitting pants) bodies. 


It's just as illogical to say what women (or little girls in the case of 11 year olds) cause rape by what they wear as it is to say that men also deserved to be raped because of what they are wearing or not wearing. 

Comment by John Camilli on March 24, 2011 at 3:10pm

And John, you're right that my arguments here do not hold with what I have often said in other posts. Monica, to fill you in briefly, I am an absolute determinist, which means I beleive in fate, and that it can't be changed by something called "choice," which I think is an invalid concept. I think humans, and everything else, do only what they can do according to the laws of nature, and nothing else. As a result, I do not think humans are responsible for what they do.


However, I sometimes comment on things as if there were such a thing ass choice and moral responsibility because I want people to see how illogical the system is and that, under scrutiny, it breaks down. In this case, I am arguing the counter-perspective of men in society, feeling violated by women, who are complaining of feeling violated by men. To me, it's flipsides of the same coin: the violations of men become the violations of women, become the violations of men, etc etc. But most people cannot see it that way because they cannot understand other people's motivations. I do not think men want to harm women and women want to harm men, but I think it happens, and if you want to purport that we all have choices about it, then you have to be willing to look at addressing both sides of the problem, not just yours and this 11 year-old girl's.



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