In the endless and tiresome bickering/debating over god's existence why is it that theists are not attempting to substantiate their claims by finding heaven and hell?

Am wondering whether any of you have known a theist to do so?  Ever hear of a theist becoming a physicist/astronomer so that she can find out about heaven? Does heaven emit something that we can detect? Black holes do. Why not heaven? Do souls travel at the speed of light? How long does it take to reach heaven once a person has died? Does heaven expand to accommodate the newbies? Does it have a physical basis like any other planet? Is it ethereal? If so, what does that mean? 

And hell is a lot closer, at least potentially, right? So do geologists/theists make an effort? Are they using instruments to monitor inner earth? 

And if no such efforts are being made what does that indicate about the state of mind of believers? We all know that believers in Bigfoot and Spacemen and others such look for evidence. They know that the rest of us will deny their claims without it? Why is heaven and hell different?

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Comment by Loren Miller on September 17, 2018 at 6:30am

And ultimately, the reason why they lean on faith so heavily is because they've drunk the Kool-Aid down to the dregs.  They're terrified of what their god might do to them if they don' kowtow, and if not their god, then their fellow congregants and how they'll react to someone who has the unmitigated gall to question dictum ex cathedra.

And all of this comes from trying to deal with the first fear: fear of the yawning nothingness which is DEATH and non-existence.

Comment by Frankie Dapper on September 17, 2018 at 6:19am

Yeah have faith..fuck the facts...we don't want really want to know...maybe that helps to explain Trump supporters.  His lying has gotten so outrageous that Pinocchio's nose is exceeding the speed of light racing to see if the universe has borders. Playing fast and loose with reality and creating a cult of personality is not something many rationally minded persons will tolerate-but ignorant and theistic will. 

Comment by Loren Miller on September 17, 2018 at 5:52am

I think that evangelicals don't go into astronomy or deep-core geology for a very simple reason.  At some level or other, they know what they'll find if they go looking for heaven or hell: NOTHING.  As the saying goes, they know what they believe and do not want to be bothered by troublesome things like FACTS.

Comment by Joan Denoo on September 16, 2018 at 12:48am

I ask the believer, "Do you really believe in the virgin birth?" or "What evidence do you have that Eve was made from Adam's rib?" or "If you expect to see loved ones after you die, will they know you?" or "If god exists, and is good, why did Mom suffer so?"

I just keep asking questions mirroring their comments. So far, faith appears to be the only evidence upon which they place their claims. 

Comment by Frankie Dapper on March 30, 2017 at 7:49pm

thanks Michael

It is good to know somebody went-a-lookin

Comment by Michael Penn on March 30, 2017 at 7:09am

Very good points there, Glen.

The late Finis Jennings Dake taught that heaven was in the northern most part of the sky, that it was a planet, and he used the bible to try and prove this. Dake was a rogue Pentecostal but maybe he forgot that there are no directions as we know them in space.

As for hell, it was somewhere at the Earth's core. That also explained why it stayed hot.

Are heavenly realms ethereal and what does that mean? Many used to claim that we all exist together at the same time except that humans simply cannot see the spiritual beings. This type of nonsense is believed by most today to explain all types of woo. Then we have that elite brand of theists who say their god is in another universe and that's why you cannot see him, prove him, or disprove him. Some believers want to use the computer and whether or not "the inventor of the computer lives inside the computer" to prove this to me. ( I never knew that one man invented the computer before. lol )

Reaching heaven is instant once you die. This is because modern believers claim we never lose consciousness. It's not in the book but that's how they believe it. Once again, the religious view is that there are two of you, but only the "spiritual" you counts. It's a very special brand of make believe. I can see Jesus now as he is raised up into the clouds going to heaven. Did he travel at warp speed? Maybe it was all like releasing a helium balloon. Is he there yet? Then we have to face ideas that if he was there instantly how did anyone see him go there at all? If he disappeared in the clouds how does anyone know where he went?

The situation remains the same as it always was. Believers just keep on making this crap up and getting angry at us because we refuse to believe it like they do.

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