i have heard many of time when people are with drawling from drugs and booze that they see god or prayed for god to save them from the effects of there disease which and i know im not not the only atheist who has said this but hello? if god was there wouldn't he stop you from picking up the very substance that is putting you through this nightmare to begin with? it is at this point where i think people go to god out of pure fear thinking the the lord sent them a message during there detox rather then its there body reacting from no longer having this chemical in it fear does crazy things to some people and religion is defiantly there to welcome the addict into guilt and submission this is why i believe so Manny convicts and druggies go towards the"light" it give a false purpose and rather than turn with in they look out ward submitting to the same pathology that got them where whey where in the first place. so where is the breaking point? can we as atheists tech this to addicts ? does it matter? i think it dose on us and society as a whole.

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Comment by Lary9 on April 20, 2011 at 1:02am
I take umbrage with your use of the terms "druggies". It's always easier to distance yourself from the behavioral frailties of other human beings by giving them derrogating nicknames. But whether you are an atheist, like me, or a person of religious faith, it's useful to recall the words..."there but for fortune". Brotherhood and good will are not exclusively ecclesiatic terms and did not cease for me when I walked out the church doors.
Comment by Michael Brodie on April 20, 2011 at 12:03am
I agree - - It does matter - - especially with christianity:  You are not required to self-improve, but must admit that you are incapable of anything on your own.  Christians are fond of saying that "we are not perfect - - just forgiven", which is not the basis for any ethical or moral code.  I'm sure that the idea of a second chance (in the next life) is most appealing to the druggies and convicts (especially the most violent of them).  What could be easier than receiving "the grace of god" by stating your faith that jesus is what the bible says he is?
Comment by Azel Praer on April 16, 2011 at 2:51pm
wow lary thought provoking i agree with you to a point, i have friends who believe in god and i would never talk down to them. if you can bond and find common ground with people going through the same thing as you then all the better just leave the religion out, take what you need  thank you for sharing---Azel
Comment by Lary9 on April 16, 2011 at 11:24am
In 1981, Mike, the atheist, and I joined an AA group to get sober. I was troubled by the obvious religious tone to the Steps. Even The Big Book had stern advisories from Bill Wilson in the "Chapter To The Agnostic". I was offended. Mike was calm and prepared for compromise. We both worked The Steps and stayed clean and sober. Today, Mike's married to a Roman Catholic and has converted for the kids---and me? Me...I'm an atheist. Sobriety gave me courage to change and those damn steps got me thinking so honestly, I took the "leap of reason". I just celebrated 30 years clean & sober in April. The most important medicine about the AA group experience wasn't the "God Thing". It was the people thing. I came up with a slogan that is on the wall of that local group along with the other AA signs like "Let Go. Let God." But mine says:

"No Christian is exempted from being human by believing in God.
 Conversely, no non-believer is ever banished from the human family for not believing either."
Comment by paul babcock on April 15, 2011 at 4:20pm
As a person who has demonstrated that he does have a problem handling them I recognize problems with me saying this. But I like it so I will anyway:

Religion is for people who can't handle drugs.

I have had problems with drug abuse. And I have been a theist. I am not convinced at all that drugs were the worse of the two.
Comment by Alona Naga on April 15, 2011 at 12:20pm
Hope you stay clean and become uber successful. show those theists how its done, without skydaddy or zombie son. Stay strong
Comment by Azel Praer on April 14, 2011 at 10:58pm
thanks for sharing John and yes i can do it with a sky dad or zombie son with ease lol



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