Many years ago I was dating a girl. One evening things between us were proceeding as they naturally do between two people who are attracted to each other. Things were quite hot and we were down to our underwear. I was removing her panties.

"Stop" she said. 

I did. We lay beside each other, eyes into eyes. A very intimate moment. She finished undressing me, with some unmentionable activity. I started to reciprocate.

"Stop" she said. 

It was our 6th date, we hadn't had sex yet. I don't believe there is value in rushing into sex so I wasn't concerned or frustrated except as to a desire to know what her thoughts were in that moment. I was a bit worried she might have suffered abuse. So we cooled off shared a smoke. We talked. I waited and listened. As I expected she brought the conversation back to her earlier stop preference. This is the part of the memory that is the most vivid.

She said, "I wanted you to, you know, go for it."

"But you were saying stop."

She squirmed a bit and put her hair behind her ear. "Yeah. I know.  But I didn't want you to."

I didn't have words then. She broke it off a few days later. I never discovered if she was abused or not. 

For years I've thought about this. I've gone through the whole gamut of reactions from confusion, then disgust, then acceptance. But never real understanding. Why desire forced sex? Do women want to be raped? Is this why some women place themselves in situations where a ethically bankrupt man can take advantage? If some women seek forced sex, why?

I don't have answers to these questions. 

According to Psychology Today, "From 1973 through 2008, nine surveys of women's rape fantasies have been published. They show that about four in 10 women admit having them (31 to 57 percent) with a median frequency of about once a month. Actual prevalence of rape fantasies is probably higher because women may not feel comfortable admitting them." [1]

I can almost understand or at least accept the idea of "I'm being forced and I enjoy it" fantasies. I presume that this is part of the BDSM culture. But the fantasy of "I'm being forced and I hate it" IS RAPE and is very prevalent in women. The degree to which I am appalled cannot be conveyed without strong euphemism and body language.

Dr. Michael J. Bader, author of Arousal: The Secret Logic of Sexual Fantasies, writes: "It is quite common that children who were abused grow up and develop sexual fantasies loosely based on their abuse. ... The adult indulging in a fantasy of sexual surrender or abasement is actually saying to her or himself: 'I'm recreating a terrifying or traumatic scene, but this time I'm in control because I'm scripting the scene ...'" [2]

The figures for rape fantasy and and childhood sexual assault don't really line up. [3] But on the other hand this kind of data is likely difficult to accurately obtain.

What influences a woman's desire for forced sex? What do you think the root causes of that fantasy are? Is indulging a woman's forced sex fantasy in a consensual way harmful to her or to society? Are there women who seek to be raped? I have opinions on this - I want to hear yours.

Views: 544


You need to be a member of Atheist Nexus to add comments!

Join Atheist Nexus

Comment by Čenek Sekavec on July 18, 2014 at 1:00pm

I have a question: how do we encourage women to own their actions on this? To accept the consequences? I'm certain that after we broke up my ex sought out a man who wouldn't stop when she said so.

I think it's important, especially on this issue, that women say exactly what they mean. If there is any ambiguity it is harmful, to everyone.

Don't women need to be telling women who have a rape fantasy to bridle that passion and be safe?

Comment by Lil' Bitch in an Egg on July 17, 2014 at 5:35pm
Comment by Andrew Bradford Hoke on July 17, 2014 at 12:07am

Enough polite fiction.

Comment by Andrew Bradford Hoke on July 17, 2014 at 12:05am

Such abuse is an awful thing. Such patterns need to be recognized and appreciated for what they are - atrocious.

Comment by Joan Denoo on July 16, 2014 at 11:41pm

The reason I don't remain silent, Andrew, is because there are so many misconceptions in the public perception of family violence and sexual abuse of children. Anyone who remains silent in face of such atrocities becomes part of the problem. 

I expect you, I need you and others to wake up to reality and stand in protection of children against such violent acts, physical, mental and emotional. An informed public will not blame the victims and will not place blame on those who can be so easily traumatized. 

The good news is, little boys and girls can learn how to respond to their bodies in healthy, positive ways. They know the complexity of the human sexual systems and take responsibility for their own feelings, thoughts and actons.  

Comment by Andrew Bradford Hoke on July 16, 2014 at 11:26pm

Joan, I don't know what to say except, thanks for sharing things that may help others.

Polite silence can't be the answer, and I think it's really great that you helped others get through similar suffering.

Comment by Joan Denoo on July 16, 2014 at 8:07pm

Oh, I must add, some women do sexually abuse both boys and girls. Of course, we know of the school teachers, male and female, that have sex with underage children. That is a violation of trust as great as the violation by church people. Children need people worthy of their trust in their environment and when adults violate that, the children pay heavy prices. 

When I worked at the boys' ranches, there were several boys who had been molested by their mothers. As social worker and teacher, I had to be on the watch for any and all signs that the boys might send and investigate as best I could without traumatizing the boys. Let me assure you, working with court-appointed boys to boys' ranches is not an easy job. I feel I did my very best work with that population. Working with traumatized little boys is quite different than working with traumatized boys grown into adulthood. 

Comment by Joan Denoo on July 16, 2014 at 7:57pm

Čenek, sure! Women face complex and long-term consequences, not only in reputation but in becoming pregnant. Many fathers walk away, not interested in the woman or his child. Most women do not walk away; they often cope the very best they can. Having a baby when not able to support it herself and without the physical, mental and emotional support of a father takes a heavy toll on women. 

Most women want sex. It is normal, natural, healthy, and positive, if the conditions are right. If not, she allows herself to be put into a terrible predicament. Surely, some women say no, mean no, and need to be respected for that decision. Some women say no, mean yes, and then do not accept the consequences of what happens to them. It is easier to blame a sex ravaged man than accept responsibility for her own decisions. 

One of the myths that needs to be addressed is that men cannot control their sexual desires. That is just plain nonsense. Sure, he has an erection that may or may not be desired. It is his body that has the blood flow to the sexual organs. It is his mind that makes the decision about the choices he makes. 

When I was in Turkey, many women wore burqas and when I asked them why, they told me the men could not control themselves if they saw any part of a woman's body. They were wrapped in heavy clothing, 100 degree temperature, and I was walking around in a slight sleeveless gauze cotton dress, wind whipping it in all different directions. Men seemed to be able to control themselves upon seeing me and other western dressed women. What is this nonsense about not being able to control themselves? 

Let me assure you, women have arousals, as well, it is very hard to say "No" when it is in their self-interests to make that decision. Those who don't take control of their sexual lives pay heavy prices.

There is the element of child sexual abuse and that must factor into a man's decision, as you did with your friend. A very high percentage of young girls have been molested. The rate is not as high as some claim, but the numbers do not matter. The fact is, many little girls, and now we know little boys are molested and for very complex reasons, never report it. If they do report it, they often are not taken seriously, as you well know from the recent revelations of priest molesters. I do know, for a fact, most sexual abuse is by adult male family members. The most dangerous place for a child is his or her own family or circle of family friends.

As a 14 year old, I was chased around a table by the deacon of our church. He was splaying his sperm all over himself and the fine leather chairs of the church office. It was such a disgusting sight, I was not traumatized as a victim. He was just a filthy old man with foul breath and disgusting pats on girls' body parts. I was not the only one and we girls were kind of a support group. We did talk about it to church elders, to no avail. We had to protect each other and especially the younger ones. We got our sex education in an institution that does not allow sex education. Sick! 

Comment by Čenek Sekavec on July 16, 2014 at 7:31pm

Joan thanks for weighing in on this, I was hoping that you would. I always appreciate your perspective.

To make sure I understand, are you saying that one possible explanation of this behavior is that a woman may be balancing her sexual desire with societal pressure and pregnancy consequences, and that conflict is being expressed by contradictory verbal and physical cues?

Comment by Andrew Bradford Hoke on July 16, 2014 at 5:07pm

Joan, good points. I agree with what you say. I don't think anyone has proposed that men do or ought to have the authority to dictate to a woman whether or not she carries the baby to term. From a man's perspective, it seems wrong to not even be made aware, or to be lied to about potentially becoming a father.

Back to fantasies, as a man, I'm really reluctant to go down that road. I think after a lot of trust is established and the relationship is decidedly positive, I think lots of fantasies are possible.

I can't see myself doing the 'furry' thing though :)



Update Your Membership :




Nexus on Social Media:


© 2018   Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: Richard Haynes.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service