reference comment re. "This country was founded on Christian Principles"

I have always wanted to ask WHAT "Christian Principles" they think this country was based on. "Please quote for me something Jesus taught that we could recognize as a founding principle of the United States." Not laying up treasures on Earth, but instead selling all you have and distributing to the poor? Not resisting evil, but instead turning the other cheek? Following the entire Law of Moses down to the last Iota, except the dietary laws? Abstaining from all sin even in your thoughts, even to the point of self-castration to avoid thoughts of lust, which is spiritually equivalent to adultery? Please, where in the Bible, New Testament or Old, is there any support for religious liberty or representative government?

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Comment by Michael Penn on August 15, 2014 at 1:35am

America was founded on christian principles, eh? If that's the case, there should be mention of christianity and Jesus all through the US Constitution ... and yet there is NOT ... ONE ... REFERENCE to god or Jesus in all of that document. Further, where in the bible is democracy practiced?

LOREN you said it so well that I wanted my post to reflect it so they can all read it again. If people understood your words that should just about end the subject.

Comment by Bertold Brautigan on August 14, 2014 at 11:17pm

Soldier - you are so right. And that coupling began with Reagan and was fully consummated with Bush the Dumber. Both the Christian and Muslim religions are death cults, and fabulous tools for those pulling the strings.

Comment by Mojo on August 14, 2014 at 11:08pm
Theocrats hold forth a vision of America as a "promised land." A people (preferably white and Anglo Saxon) bequeathed by God in holding dominion over the rest of the world. It all rolls into Aryan and Teutonic racist mythology.

Painting the founders who were men of the Enlightenment, free thinkers and Deists, as Christian fundamentalists, and as someone put it "Moses in knee britches" is simply another component at making a very dangerous myth a reality.

Coupling fascist corporatist and theocrats provides a powerful combination of Ayn Rand loving rich elites with a massive army of religious fundamentalists to march forth in some Armageddon style quest to create the hell on earth end times needed for the return of the killer Christ.

In the other corner you have Arab oil money and Muslim fundamentalist obviously working diligently to achieve Caliphate 2.0.

Our last best hope is to free the world of religion and make it the laughing stock it should be before these sick bastards succeed in the death of tens if millions.
Comment by Bertold Brautigan on August 14, 2014 at 9:26pm

Maybe I'm a bit more cynical, but I think they may understand the difference with crystal clarity. They're just trying to change it.

Comment by Bluegrass Skeptic on August 14, 2014 at 9:15pm
The tough part about the whole Christian principles ploy is that many theocratic wannabes do not understand the difference of being INFLUENCED by something and FOUNDED on something. Was our nation influenced by Christianity? Absolutely. Was it founded on it?? Helllll no.
Comment by Loren Miller on August 14, 2014 at 6:40am

Pat, you and I both know what the christers are doing: they're grasping for straws (no great surprise, since they so often deal in straw men!).  They can't find anything in the Constitution to support their position, so they try to lean on the mention of "the Creator" in the Declaration of Independence and the putative backgrounds of the men responsible for those two documents and anything they may have said about god that may be construed as positive.  David Barton took this to an extreme with his "biography" of Thomas Jefferson and got kicked in the plums about it when his book was withdrawn by the publisher.

Oh, and you didn't even mention the paragraph in Article VI right after the one you cited!  You know, the one which denies the use of any "religious test" as a qualification for office or public trust?  Yet again, as Paul Simon (the songwriter, not the senator!) once said, "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

When it comes down to it, they haven't leg one to stand on, and to one degree or another, they know it.

Comment by Bertold Brautigan on August 13, 2014 at 9:29pm

Good one, Deirdre32! Reminds me of a comment I saw somewhere about how biblically appropriate Washington State was for passing both legalized pot and marriage equality, since the Bible says men who lie together should be stoned.

Comment by Pat on August 13, 2014 at 8:28pm

To follow up with Loren, and as attorney, I'll make this quick. Read Article VI, Section 2 of the United States Constitution. In case you missed it, here it is.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding. 

Pay attention to the bold part of the text, e.g. treaties being the supreme law of the land.

Here's the text of Article 11 of  The Treaty of Tripoli, written during George Washington's administration, and unanimously passed by the US Senate during the administration of John Adams, and signed into law.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, ...

Exactly what part of "NOT IN ANY SENSE FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION"  do you not freaking understand!!!!!!?????

Comment by Loren Miller on August 13, 2014 at 7:20pm

My approach is somewhat different, to wit:

America was founded on christian principles, eh?  If that's the case, there should be mention of christianity and Jesus all through the US Constitution ... and yet there is NOT ... ONE ... REFERENCE to god or Jesus in all of that document.  Further, where in the bible is democracy practiced?

If they have answers for those questions, I got lots more!

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