The Argument from Incorporeality

So, I have been using this counter-apologetic for a while now on Twitter:

1. A being is a thing has the ability to exhibit intelligent behaviour equivalent to, or indistinguishable from, that of a human (including consciousness and sentience).

2. All known beings exist in time and space.

3. If the theist claims that god is immaterial (outside time and space).

4. Therefore, god cannot exist.

What do you reckon?

I am sure that it is not original.

But I have checked Iron Chariots and Rational Wiki and cannot find any similar arguments.

Can anyone point me to similar ideas/syllogisms?

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Comment by Michael Penn on September 28, 2014 at 8:19am

Then maybe it's just an assumtion that an air breathing being would have to breath air, or that they would have to breath at all. Maybe they could also breath hydrogen.

I'm afraid that I agree with Justin Murray on this one.

Maybe a being lives on the Sun, or there really could be a giant marshmellow man.


Comment by jay H on September 28, 2014 at 7:57am

While this is better than most apologetic arguments for God(s), you still have a problem with (2).

It's merely an assumption that a being cannot exist outside time and space. (All the 'logical' arguments for God(s) always have at least one glaring assumption)

Comment by Justin Murray on September 25, 2014 at 5:34pm

Sacreligious - That is a good point.

Some theists claim that god is outside time and space (for sure this is special pleading).

What I am saying is that, if they make this claim they prove that god is not a being (in the way that we understand being.

Therefore god cannot exist.

Comment by Michael Penn on September 25, 2014 at 11:24am

Our universe and our world is material. For this to have been created by an immaterial god is a preposterous idea. Such a being would have no existence and therefore no influence in our known universe. You want to say what if? OK, what if we were attacked by Martians? What if god had headquarters on Zenon? What if demons really existed?

I hope you get the point here. Does Spiderman live in New York City?

Comment by Loren Miller on September 24, 2014 at 9:47am

In re: the virgin birth, Bertold - just WHERE did that incorporeal holy spirit get the sperm from to impregnate Mary, eh?  Oh, and before someone brings up parthenogenesis, let's keep in mind that even if that were possible, the result of a parthenogenic pregnancy would HAVE to be FEMALE!

Comment by Sacreligious on September 24, 2014 at 9:29am

I'm sorry, but this argument is flawed. You have to know bounds of time and space, you have to know what is beyond time and space, you have to know why there can't be any sentient being, why immaterial things have to be outside time and space, why god is immaterial etc.

It's much easier to say that you can't disprove god because existence of god is not a scientific hypothesis with link to definition of Popper's criteria and Occam's razor. 

Comment by Michael Penn on September 23, 2014 at 5:13pm

God is beyond time and space in so much as you hear claims that god has always existed. But how could this be? For god to be real there would still have to be some evidence of his intervention in human affairs within our time and space. There is no such evidence.

Comment by Justin Murray on September 23, 2014 at 12:53am

Thanks for post Loren.

I agree. The complete lack of a mechanism is also a serious concern.

I do not see why anyone would claim that god is beyond time and space.

That is why I have formulated this against the existence of gods.

Comment by Loren Miller on September 22, 2014 at 10:57pm

How does anything which is incorporeal interact with that which IS corporeal?  By what mechanism is the interaction accomplished?  And while we're at it, "magic" is NOT an answer!  This question is further complicated by the fact that in no case has any supernatural agent been verified as acting in the modern era, despite what the RCC would have us believe.  Their threshold for proof of "miracles" is ridiculously low and would not survive a peer review.

Not much of a leg to stand on there, sad to say...



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