What Would Be the Nature and Qualities of a Universe Designed By A Perfect Being ?


One thing that every Christian regardless of whether they are fundamentalist, moderate, or liberal, believes, is that the universe and everything in it, including the earth and all living on it, is the product of design by a perfect being (God).
Jews and Muslims share this belief also to a greater or lesser degree. What, however, would be the nature and qualities
of this universe and our world if it were, indeed, the product of design by a perfect being, or Designer, if you will ?
To answer this question let us first go directly to the source by looking at what Deuteronomy 32:4 says:
"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he".
The first thing to notice is that everything this verse is saying is in the present tense. "His work is perfect..all his ways are judgment", etc. Now let us take that word judgment in the verse. In Hebrew it is the word mishpat, and it means more than just deciding a case, though it can also mean that. But we must take it in the context of what the rest of the verse is saying.
In the context of the verse, referring to God's work being (present tense) perfect, judgment is being used with it's other common meaning of rectitude, of being fitting, proper and right, of being just. What are we to understand by all this ?
The Bible teaches over and over that God is perfect, that in him is no flaw, fault, defect, failing, or deficiency. The same is here, in Deuteronomy 32:4, said of God's work(s). What are God's works ? They would certainly include the Creation and the world. God's work is perfect, that is to say, without flaw, fault, defect, failing, or deficiency.

Here is a fact of logic that the vast majority of Christians overlook. If God were, indeed, perfect, then nothing he created would or even could subsequently become imperfect. If that could happen it would indicate a clear flaw or deficiency in God's power, which is itself, said to be perfect, thus meaning that God was not perfect after all. So, let's ask the question again in a slightly different way. What would the universe and the world be like if it were designed by a perfect Being ?
It would be without flaw and would remain so. It would be as unchangingly perfect as God himself.
Are intestinal worms a mark of perfection ? How about cancer or cerebral palsy ? Are tornadoes, earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, droughts, famines, a mark of perfection ? Christians blame the sin of Adam and Eve for the imperfect state the world is in today. But this doesn't work as an argument based upon what has already been said. A perfect Being could not create something that starts out initially perfect and subsequently becomes imperfect, including man.
If God is omniscient (infallibly knows the future), then he infallibly knew all the suffering that would ensue if he went ahead with the Creation. If God is omnibenevolent (all loving and merciful), he could not have brought himself to stand for this. If God is omnipotent (possessing power without limits), he could have decided to create man with the incapability to sin and yet preserve mans' free will.
Quite simply, all evidence points to the conclusion that the universe simply was not designed. There was and is no Creator beyond time and space. Other of my blog posts explain how the universe could have simply came into existence spontaneously. Give them a read.


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Comment by Michael Penn on February 10, 2014 at 7:56am

God himself never claimed anything! All the claims are made and written by the ancient tribesmen who wrote all the holy books. That's the problem here. There is no god Jahweh or Allah. Regardless of the names used they are all made up! Then men argue and kill each other over this.

As for mother Theresa saying that the sick should embrace their pain and suffering because it brings them closer to Christ, is a staple of the church from the beginning. They see Jesus as always suffering and going through pain on that cross they won't let him off of. This is a needed staple of growth for christianity.

It's like telling a smal child, "you did wrong again so I'm going to have to hurt your puppy. This is your fault, but you don't want me to go on hurting your puppy do you?" The child then does anything you want him too.

Comment by Anthony Jordan on February 9, 2014 at 4:55am

While no one really knows whether Jesus actually existed as a living man, or what, if he was, he really believed about himself or what he had to say. All we can go by is what is recorded of him concerning what he believed of himself and what he said.

Several verses in the New Testament intimate that Jesus thought himself to be God in flesh (e.g., Matthew 4:7 [here Satan is tempting Jesus, who replies "you shall not tempt the Lord your God], but it wasn't God per se being tempted, but Jesus. This can be taken as an admission of deity. 

Other passages include John 8:58; John 10:33; John 14:9. In John 10:33 the leaders of the Jews accuse Jesus of making himself equal to God, a charge that Jesus does not directly deny. Also, in John 5:18 we learn that the Jews understood what Jesus meant by saying that God was his father in a unique way and not in the ordinary sense that men are sons of God: "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God."

The point of saying all this is that, Jesus spoke with authority, and not as the scribes and pharisees. In Matthew 5:48 we find Jesus telling his followers in the Sermon on the Mount:

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect". As I said, all we have to go on is what The New Testament claims. Jesus, who thought himself God, says that God is perfect. We may not believe what the Bible says, but we must nevertheless take it at face value for what it does say.

Comment by Kakumei on February 8, 2014 at 10:28pm
I wasn't offended at all. There was nothing in anything you said that I would be offended by. The fact is that the atmosphere here is light-years away from what I'm used to. The civility and good manners are a little disconcerting.

The denizens of the message boards and forums in the virtual neighborhood where I grew up were made up of opposing positions and factions and no matter what their views they were out for blood. I'm used to street fights and here I am in polite society. If anyone should be worried about causing offense it's me.

Anyway, enough of that. Thank you for the scriptural references. It's handy to know where Christians get this idea. So does the sum of God's omni's equal perfection? Does he ever actually use the p word at some point in the fables? I'll look it up. That's what Google is for :)

I think that a Christian response to the orig post would be that creation is perfect because it is the product of a perfect being. The problem is not with creation but with our understanding of it. We as humans do not always recognize this perfection when we see it. It's hard to get our heads around the idea that cancer is part of a perfect world, but it must be because God created it.

I guess this might be one way they'd approach it. It begs about a million questions, like why we use our standards of good to judge God but we don't use our standards of evil to judge him. And why people pray for the cancer victim to be cured rather than rejoicing in yet another instance of God's perfect plan unfolding before us. Didn't Mother Theresa tell her victims that they should embrace their suffering and rejoice in their pain because it brought them closer to Christ? Is this a sick religion or what?
Comment by Anthony Jordan on February 8, 2014 at 9:03pm


I hope I didn't offend you with my question. That wasn't my intention. It's just that this site is for atheists, and every now and then a theist somehow sneaks in here past the guard, if you will. As to whether God, in the Bible, ever claimed omnipotence for himself, Genesis 17:1 says the following:

" And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect."                                                   So here is one instance of God claiming for himself omnipotence. See also Exodus 6:3.

In Genesis 18:14 God intimates his omnipotence:

"Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son."

In Isaiah 14:24-27 God again asserts his omnipotence. And in Isaiah 46:10 God asserts both his omniscience and omnipotence. In Jeremiah 23:24 God again asserts his omniscience.

The thing though that we must remember is that God has never spoken, for the simple reason that there is no God. Every word of the Bible are the words of man alone and uninspired.

I can also quote verses where God says, or it is said of him, that he is omnibenevolent. But I'm trying to keep my post short. But again, if I offended you, I apologize.

Comment by Kakumei on February 8, 2014 at 10:47am

I have two questions here. One,is whether or not a hypothetical perfect being could objectively recognize its own perfection.

The second is whether or not God himself ever claimed to be perfect. In my admittedly sketchy perusal of the Bible it seems that assertions of perfection omnipotence etc are either addressed to God or made about Him or his works but never made by God himself in the first person.

A plain reading of the Bible including Deut 4 and the relevant Psalms would seem to indicate that perfection is something attributed to Him by his followers.

And I guess now I have a third question. Where is the explicit Biblical support for the idea that every word therein is the word of God as if He himself had spoken it? It seems to me like even if they apply their own rather circular methods they have no scriptural grounds for this assertion as much as it might please them to make it.

And admittedly none of this addresses your question about the nature of a world created by a perfect being, so in that respect ,yes, it's beside the point. I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

Comment by Anthony Jordan on February 8, 2014 at 12:50am

What you're saying is all beside the point. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all believe their Scriptures to be the word of God himself dictated through various prophets, and to their mind whatever their Scriptures say is the same as if God himself had spoken. So Deuteronomy 32:4 is viewed as God speaking of himself through Moses. The Psalms also say that the laws of the Lord are perfect. An imperfect Being cannot issue perfect laws, especially on his own authority if he is not perfect. You must also remember that the Judeo/Christian and Islamic Scriptures teach that God is unlimited in power, knowledge and wisdom, and mercy. An imperfect Being could not possess such traits. Please don't take this in the wrong spirit, to use a phrase, but are you merely playing Devil's advocate, or are you trying to rationalize your own belief in God ? And by rationalize I do not mean to think in a rational, reasonable manner, but rather trying to devise self-satisfying but incorrect reasoning ?

Comment by Kakumei on February 7, 2014 at 10:53pm
Perfection is a matter of faith. Not even the god of the Christians can say with certainty that something is perfect. Christians can believe as a matter of faith that their god and his creation are perfect, but if their god is going to be honest he can't himself claim the perfection his followers attribute to him and his works. He can't know, so He must doubt even if his followers don't.

By the way, did the Christian god ever actually say that he was perfect? Or omnipotent etc.? Maybe he did, but I don't think so. It seems like those are all assertions made by his posse. Could be wrong though.



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